Helix Stomp DSP Bypass behaviour

[Helicksschtomp]

Hello,

 my Helix Stomp is set to DSP Bypass in the Global Settings.

I noticed by accident that any level settings in the bypassed preset (Main Level Out, Splitter etc) will be not bypassed but will remain.

This results in inconstant Bypass volume levels when stepping through the presets in Bypass - depending on the the level settings of the underlying individual presets.

I thought DSP Bypass was just a plain buffered bypass bringing also back the levels to 0db.

Instead it seems to just bypass only the effects with the level settings unaltered resulting in volume jumps.

Is this intended?

Thanks for any input on clarifying!

[phil_m]

When you say bypassed preset, do you mean a preset with all the blocks bypassed or a preset in which you’ve activated the Bypass All function? Simply bypassing all the blocks in a preset will leave all the level settings in the Output Block and Splits at whatever you have them set at. If you use the Bypass All function, it should give you a straight bypass from the in to out.

[rd2rk]

I did a quick test, using only the Output Block Level set differently on three consecutive presets.

When you enter Bypass Mode, the screen says "Analog Bypass! Press any switch".

As soon as you press ANY switch, such as to change presets, you're OUT of Bypass Mode.

The Knob is disabled, so you can't switch presets that way.

I connected an FCB1010 so that I could switch presets via MIDI, and used HX Edit to confirm that the presets are actually changing.

There was NO change in levels when switching between the three test presets via MIDI (WITHOUT pressing a switch).

Analog (TRUE) Bypass is, indeed, TRUE Bypass.

 

EDIT: In DSP Mode it behaves as you described, which makes sense since the signal is still being processed. From the manual:

 

NOTE: There are two types of All Bypass in HX Stomp: Analog bypass
(sometimes called "true bypass"), where mechanically switching relays route
your signal directly from the inputs to the outputs with no processing or
A/D/A conversion, and DSP bypass, where any delay echoes and reverb
tails decay naturally. By default, HX Stomp is set for Analog bypass, but this
behavior can be set from "Global Settings > Preferences".

[Helicksschtomp]

Thanks for looking into this!

@ phil_m:

I meant the Bypass All being set to DSP Bypass.

You wrote "If you use the Bypass All function, it should give you a straight bypass from the in to out."

That is only true for "Bypass All " being set to Analogue. However as we all all know the Analogue  Bypass All  is sonically flawed  (rather UNTRUE than True Bypass)

I would have assumed that in DSP mode the levels would default to 0db on Bypass All but actually this is not the case. 

However I confirm rd2rk's findings.

The DSP Bypass  mode is obviously switching off the blocks but leaving the preset's level settings untouched. This  will result in individually varying Bypass levels depending on the preset's levels. (by the way you can also change presets by clicking on one of the presets in the list in HX Edit for the test)

The reason why I'm bringing all this up: since  levels are of course not always matched among all of my presets then DSP Bypass will create unwanted volume jumps.

So in order to avoid volume jumps I guess I'm forced to match all presets levels? This  does not make sense  in terms of designing individual internal gain staging per each individual (active)preset.

I first noticed this issue today when I was wondering why I had such a drastic boost in output sent into the mixing desk from my pedalboard where my HX Stomp is integrated.

I finally figured out that it's the Stomp (while being on All bypass) in a particular preset that had a level in Splitter and Main section boost.

 

In essence it would be desirable to have an option in the Global settings which would bring the levels back to 0db in "Bypass All" DSP mode.

Would you agree or am I missing something here?

[phil_m]

13 minutes ago, Helicksschtomp said:

Thanks for looking into this!

@ phil_m:

I meant the Bypass All being set to DSP Bypass.

You wrote "If you use the Bypass All function, it should give you a straight bypass from the in to out."

That is only true for "Bypass All " being set to Analogue. However as we all all know the Analogue  Bypass All  is sonically flawed  (rather UNTRUE than True Bypass)

I would have assumed that in DSP mode the levels would default to 0db on Bypass All but actually this is not the case. 

However I confirm rd2rk's findings.

The DSP Bypass  mode is obviously switching off the blocks but leaving the preset's level settings untouched. This  will result in individually varying Bypass levels depending on the preset's levels. (by the way you can also change presets by clicking on one of the presets in the list in HX Edit for the test)

The reason why I'm bringing all this up: since  levels are of course not always matched among all of my presets then DSP Bypass will create unwanted volume jumps.

So in order to avoid volume jumps I guess I'm forced to match all presets levels? This  does not make sense  in terms of designing individual internal gain staging per each individual (active)preset.

I first noticed this issue today when I was wondering why I had such a drastic boost in output sent into the mixing desk from my pedalboard where my HX Stomp is integrated.

I finally figured out that it's the Stomp (while being on All bypass) in a particular preset that had a level in Splitter and Main section boost.

 

In essence it would be desirable to have an option in the Global settings which would bring the levels back to 0db in "Bypass All" DSP mode.

Would you agree or am I missing something here?

I hadn’t specifically tested it, but if the output blocks affect the level, that’s probably more useful for most people, I imagine. Really, if you’re using the Stomp for an effects-only setup, there’s no reason to change the level in the Output Block, I think. You’d probably want to maintain unity gain through the device.

[rd2rk]

44 minutes ago, Helicksschtomp said:

In essence it would be desirable to have an option in the Global settings which would bring the levels back to 0db in "Bypass All" DSP mode.

 

Never anything wrong with wanting an option to a default behavior that you don't like.

Post it up for a vote over on Ideascale :

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/

 

[Helicksschtomp]

49 minutes ago, phil_m said:

You’d probably want to maintain unity gain through the device.

Thank you! I'll follow that general advice and readjust the levels for unity gain.

 

However there might be particular situations where  a boost would be an essential part of the preset.

So I guess it indeed would be a handy feature to have the option for volume defaulting to unity gain regardless of the preset's setting.

 

28 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Post it up for a vote over on Ideascale :

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/

 

Thanks you,  I'll do that!

[Helicksschtomp]

Another awkward finding regarding DSP Bypass.

It is regarding loops which had been created with the one switch looper.

 

In DSP mode of "Bypass All" the content of the loop will NOT be bypassed but still be played back - just dry without any DSP processing though.

I think this does not make any sense by design in the first place - because the loop content should be regarded as a product of the DSP.

So It should be muted accordingly, right or wrong?

 

Can anybody confirm this?

 

[phil_m]

9 hours ago, Helicksschtomp said:

Another awkward finding regarding DSP Bypass.

It is regarding loops which had been created with the one switch looper.

 

In DSP mode of "Bypass All" the content of the loop will NOT be bypassed but still be played back - just dry without any DSP processing though.

I think this does not make any sense by design in the first place - because the loop content should be regarded as a product of the DSP.

So It should be muted accordingly, right or wrong?

 

Can anybody confirm this?

 

That’s interesting. I’d not really thought about that. I would kind of expect the playback to stop, but on the other hand, the Looper block is never really bypassed in a preset. So I don’t know... I’m not sure what the intended behavior would be. It might be worth opening a support ticket about to bring to their attention.

[Helicksschtomp]

Thanks for your advice. I have opened a support ticket for this issue.

[Lone_Poor_Boy]

14 minutes ago, Helicksschtomp said:

Thanks for your advice.

 

LOL!  Just noting your username is pretty funny!

[Helicksschtomp]

A result of a lack of fantasy combined with German misspelling...