Vastly different sound: FRFR vs headphones

[benthere77]

This is related to my other post regarding struggles with my newly purchased Pod GO.  

I tried headphones to compare it with the rather dull and lifeless sounds I'm getting out of my frfr speaker (Headrush 108) and there is indeed a huge difference.  The preset tones coming out of the headphones sound MUCH better. There is actually some life in these tones.

 

Does anyone have any insight on why the headphones would sound different (as in, worlds better!)  than an FRFR speaker?  

Thanks...

 

(Note:  I've come back to edit after creating my own pre-set and playing it through my headphones.  It sounds flat out inspiring! Beautiful tone. I would be in tone heaven if I could get the sound out of my FRFR speaker to sound like this.   I also tried running the Pod GO into my tube amp (with everything neutral on the amp) and it sounds just as lifeless as the FRFR speaker.)

Edited July 10, 2020 by benthere77
added details

[voxman55]

With headphones you're hearing Pod Go over both ears and (as most effects in Pod Go are stereo only) your tone may sound bigger & fuller accordingly.  With a single FRFR you're getting a different 'mono' in the room sound.  Does using the contour switch make any difference and are you angling the HR108 at an angle to project sound up to your ears rather than laying it flat when you'll lose some sound/tone into the floor?  Also, have you set your Pod Go main out, in global settings, to 'Line' (see p32 of the manual, but I've shown below for you)? 

 

Re your amp, were you running Pod Go into the FX loop return, or straight into the front end of your tube amp?  For a guitar amp your main out in global settings should be set to 'instrument' if you're going through the front end of your amp and you should connect Pod Go from its 'Amp Out' output.  However, these are options and you should experiment with the ins/outs and settings to see what sounds best to your ears.  I'd also recommend you angle your amp and/or raise it a bit off the floor. 

 

I heard a demo of the HR108 with a smaller Headrush gig unit and it came across as very dark & lifeless to my ears, but then the guy was playing horrible metal tones.  Make sure you've set your Pod Go so your cab emulations are activated to your powered speaker - see 'Global ins/outs' below. 

 

The most important tip I can give you with Pod Go is about the EQ. Changing the type & position of the Pod Go EQ block could make a world of difference - I tend to put it at the end of the signal chain and set its output db level to around 2db to better impact on tone. I like the Cali Q EQ and parametric EQ but I'm still experimenting here myself. Learning about EQ, its settings and where you like your EQ in the chain can make a MASSIVE difference to what you hear, so experiment - and you might decide you like one set up for headphones, but another for your HR108.  You can set-up and save different user patches for each purpose (or to suit different guitars) if you want to.  In my opinion, even with a regular amp/stomp box set up, an external EQ can be essential and the magic ingredient to shape your tone in ways that your amps on board EQ can't.  Used in front of your amp, it will act more like a gain boost, adding distortion as you up the level; through the FX loop (or after the amp/cab in Pod Go) it acts as a clean boost. 

 

And remember that whilst the above relates to EQ in your Pod Go FX blocks, your Pod Go also has a GLOBAL EQ. (see p31 of the manual, but see below) - this doesn't operate if you are using the AMP OUT on your Pod Go - hence why I said above that regardless of what the Line 6 guidance might be, it's all about experimenting to see which outs/settings work best for you with your amp and/or powered speaker. It may take you a while to experiment, inc different types and chain position of EQ, but it could make a huge difference to what you hear from your amp/powered speaker.  Remember when I said Pod Go isn't plug and play and there's a fair bit to learn?  Learning about your ins/outs, global and block EQ is a prime example!  

 

Pod Go Edit: Re tweaking with EQ/FX/amps/cabs - this is much easier and more visual on Pod Go edit. With EQ for example you can slide each frequency parameter to min/max settings to hear/learn what they do - and Pod Go Edit lets you easily undo changes ...and you can use snapshots to experiment with different tones and easily switch between snapshots to hear the differences your tweaks are making. Eg You set your basic tone but then switch to snapshot 2 as your tweak comparison version, and tweak - then switch back & forth.  And moving fx chain order is so much faster & easier - you just click and drag it. And ditto selecting alternatives - you physically see little icons and you just click what you want.  (Tip: if you like a spring reverb, it's best placed between the amp and cab).  

 

If all of this sounds a bit daunting, trust me, once you've sussed out a few basics Pod Go is a dream to use and you'll be flying in no time - & Pod Go Edit will help you to learn even faster. It's kind of like when you buy a new car you need to read the manual and play around with stuff first so you know what all the new buttons and gizmos do that you never had in your old car, and when you drive, it will take you a little while to get the feel and get the best out of it because ride, handling, acceleration, brakes, turning circle, gears are all different etc.  Although I've used modelling gear for years, there's a load of stuff in Pod Go that's very different to my Vox Tonelab SE/LE units - so I've had to learn about my 'new car' too!

 

[benthere77]

My tube amp only has a single input.  

 

After playing awhile through headphones I now see what all the hype is about.  There has to be a way to get these sounds through my speaker.

 

I think it has something to do with "global eq" and high/low shelfs, etc.

 

There's so much more responsiveness and power in the high notes when playing through the phones. The sustain is incredible too.

[grdGo33]

No offense to the Headrush 108, but have you every tried playing music with it?  (regular music, ex; playing classical music, rock, etc.)  My guess, it's not really designed to play at home at low volumes, it's more a design to blast sound out, so you will not get great sound quality from it...  Hear it here for instance, at around 3m:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OyItH10hoU   I mean it doesn't sound good from where I'm sitting.  Compare to just a Boss Katana  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNBAE0tCm_A

 

But of course, it's ~$200, so you can't expect 'end game' quality sound...  You have other sound samples here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgKPP5BG2p4    So I'm 95% sure it's a case I think where you're hearing the limitations of the speaker (driver + tweeter).  Do you have a regular stereo at home?  Try plugging Go's headphone out to it, and compare.  I'm using stereo speakers + cheap T-Amp (what I had laying around), and it sounds incomparable vs a L6 Spider Amp... But yeah, $200 amp vs speakers costing maybe ~$1000 a pair...

 

The Go deserve quality speakers, in stereo if possible, so unless you play music out of the FRFR 108 and it sounds 'phenomenal', I think you're just hearing to sound of the 108.  Unless it sounds much worse than any of the above video...  But from what I heard from the clips, they do seem to have that sort of distinctive boxy/muddy sound; not much depth/clarity...  This guy at 4m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioFesfEOTR0  describes it as "it sounds like the headrush has a cold", nasal... Anyway, don't expect too much from the FRFR!

 

[benthere77]

Guys  -

 

Thank you both!  I am much much closer with this thing now.  Still not exactly there but getting near the ballpark.

 

Voxmann - For some reason I didn't see your full response until this morning.  You have given me great hope with this thing and invaluable assistance.  I don't even know exactly what I changed but all of the sudden it's better through the speaker.  I did put the Headrush on a stand and hit the "contour EQ" button and that certainly made a difference although not a huge one.  I think most of my work now lies with experimenting with the various EQ (global and otherwise).    My apologies if I'm being dense but can you clarify this statement a little further? 

 

<<Make sure you've set your Pod Go so your cab emulations are activated to your powered speaker - see 'Global ins/outs' below. >>

Should that say "Pre CAB/IR" or "Main Out"?  I think I know the answer (based on my ears) but I need confirmation.

 

 

grdGo33 -  I've had my suspicions also that it has something to do with me wanting to play through the FRFR at an indoor/home-office volume level.  However, the Sweetwater rep seemed to be pretty confident that the Headrush frfr sound quality would not be volume dependent and should sound just as good at low volumes.  It's interesting because I feel like the B and E strings have more power/punch/sustain/whatever in the headphones than through the FRFR and this really my biggest complaint.  It's those higher notes.  The bass is super boomy and middle range notes have nice responsiveness and sustain through the FRFR.  While everything sounds great through the headphones.

 

I took your suggestion and just played a YouTube video of SRV playing Riviera Paradise through my FRFR and overall the sound was good but I do notice a little of the same thing I"m hearing from my playing...super "bassy" and not quite the level of crispness I would like on those higher notes coming from the B and E strings.  Still sounded pretty damn good though.  Maybe it's just a matter of tweaking EQ's to tamp down the base and bring out the highs.   Sounds a little daunting.

Thank you again for the great input!

 

EDIT:  After giving your link a listen, that Boss Katana (pre-amp option) might be a good alternative!

 

 

 

 

[grdGo33]

1 hour ago, benthere77 said:

Should that say "Pre CAB/IR" or "Main Out"? 

Main Out.  With "Pre CAB/IR",  your amp out bypasses your cab and any effect after it, so it's definitely not what you want.

 

Quote

I took your suggestion and just played a YouTube video of SRV playing Riviera Paradise through my FRFR and overall the sound was good but I do notice a little of the same thing I"m hearing from my playing...super "bassy" and not quite the level of crispness I would like on those higher notes coming from the B and E strings.  Still sounded pretty damn good though.  Maybe it's just a matter of tweaking EQ's to tamp down the base and bring out the highs.   Sounds a little daunting.

Quote

This guy at 4m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioFesfEOTR0  describes it as "it sounds like the headrush has a cold", nasal... Anyway, don't expect too much from the FRFR!

 

Weird if you said it sound pretty damn good...  I'm very surprised!  So compared to your headphones, the FRFR sounds "pretty damn good"?  I'm sad to say that I couldn't find any measurements of the FRFR-108 (ex; frequency response, waterfall graph, etc.).   The 'contour' button just boosts the bass & treble, this is typically a trick for 'cheap' sound systems to sound better, because it boosting bass and treble will make people think it sounds better, even if it does not, the old 'v' EQ trick...   (short term sounds better, longer you realize it's just bumped highs & lows and it's no good...). 

 

So maybe you could tune your settings so that they sound better on the FRFR, but to me, that's a compromise, as pretty much the Go gives you '99%' sound quality, and then it goes through the FRFR, maybe maybe lowers it to 80% or whatever it is, depending on how good/bad they really are...  But then the issue becomes that if you ever upgrade the FRFR, all of your patches will likely sound like lollipop, because they've been specifically tweaked for the FRFR...  So all this tweaking for FRFR was for nothing, and now you've get patches you've got to un-tweak your FRFR fixes...  So I'd say, try to invest in a decent pair of speakers!  Be it they're studio monitors or just regular stereo speakers, that you'll likely notice right away a big improvement and you won't have to deal with anything FRFR related...

 

Otherwise, to really know how great/bad the FR sounds, compare this clip with headphones or speakers,  vs FRFR.   This is genuine tone from the Go, and the guy goes through all the presets.  So at least it eliminates the player + guitar.  Me trying out the presets sounds NOWHERE as good as this guy...  So you'll at least get a better idea of how it should sound, vs how it does sound on FRFR...  Quite curious to know how it'll sound let me know!  :)    (btw, what speakers or headphones can you compare with?)

 

 

[benthere77]

Just wanted to give you guys a quick update on my progress.

 

I purchased the Boss Katana 100 Mkii to use the "Power Amp In" with my Pod GO.  Much, much better.  This is a keeper and the Headrush FRFR is going back.  I think you were right about the volume and speaker.

I am so much closer to the crisp headphone sound from the headphones but still not 100% satisfied.  I think I will get there though.  The Boss Katana was a great suggestion. For playing it in my home office I change it to the .5W setting for good results.   Also turning off  the cab/speaker simulation in helix is a must for clear sound through the Katana (which makes sense since the Katana is now the "cab").  
 

I still don't quite have the crispness and responsiveness in the highs that I'm hearing through the headphones.  I'm sure this can be worked out though.

Thanks again to both of you for all of the help!  This is all sort of fun but also sort of frustrating.  Ready to get my tone dialed in so I can just play again.

[grdGo33]

Nice!  Great choice I've heard great things about the Katana 100 mk2, it's a fantastic amp on its own!   :)  It even has an FX loop, so make sure you try to the 4 cable method of the Pod Go's manual, that way you'll get the most of the setup.  Not that it's really necessary as you have plenty of choices (too many!) in the Go's amp, but who knows maybe you could use some of the Katana's amps or effects in combination with the Go's, so get a 'free' distortion, boost, or extra effects?  Anyway, worth a try.  :)

 

Which headphones do you have?  Maybe the crispness you hear is 'fake', as I was saying with the V eq settings, some headphones also have excessive treble which might sound 'crisp' or 'detailed' or whatever, but it's just 'more' treble...  Anyway, bit hard to explain.  But also, buck for buck, you need to spend a LOT on speakers to equal a good pair of headphones; especially in how resolving and how 'crispness' and responsiveness; in the room, there's all kinds of echo, so even with music, a pair of say $300 headphones can sound more resolving and clearer than a pair of $5000 speakers in a room...  Headphones just naturally have a cleaner/crisper/more resolving sound, just the nature of headphones vs speakers, so it might be unrealistic to chase headphone sound in speakers!

 

Also lastly, sound coming out of speakers is quite directional, and every speaker will sound different depending if you're higher, lower, on the side, etc.,  So if you want to get the most of your speaker amp, instead of having it on the floor, try elevating it by putting it on some furniture or something so that it's at head level and points at your head, that will make a big difference!  Maybe just tilting upwards can help. Have fun!

[benthere77]

My headphones are actually a quite cheap set ($50) "AKG by Harman K52".

I keep experimenting and getting closer.  Adding compression at the beginning of my effects chain and parametric EQ at the very end are starting to bring out that crispness in the higher notes that I'm looking for.  In the headphones there is this very sweet responsiveness and sustain along with the clarity.  If it makes sense, my fingers feel more powerful with the B and high E string notes when playing through the headphones.  More responsive to vibrato and the vibrato sustains with clarity.  Having a hard time replicating that through the Katana probably due to factors you have mentioned.  I'm pretty sure I can get there with more tweaking.  I've gotten that sound out of amps before and never used headphones at all until this week, and that was just to troubleshoot my POD problems. (Great idea BTW, whoever that was)

Thanks to you guys this is starting to become fun.  At first it felt solely like frustration and work!  Still a little of that but I'm starting to see the potential.  

I'll let you know when and if I get my "perfect" tone for this particular song/setting.  (Riviera Paradise...Lenny...SRV/Mayer clean sound)

 

[clintonreese]

I started to buy a headrush FRFR when I got my Pod Go, because I wasn't getting the full sound from the Pod from my amp, but after doing some research I decided to buy the Line 6 Power Cab 212+ and what a difference it makes having the stereo sound coming from the Cab because of the 2 speakers...read up before you buy, no need to buy and then you get the same effects...

[benthere77]

Folks.... I found my problem.  I feel like an idiot but I'll own up to it.

I've been using the wrong kind of cable to connect to my speaker.  I was using a regular instrument cable.  The correct cable (1/4 "balanced") makes all the difference!  Just, wow...

[voxman55]

37 minutes ago, benthere77 said:

Folks.... I found my problem.  I feel like an idiot but I'll own up to it.

I've been using the wrong kind of cable to connect to my speaker.  I was using a regular instrument cable.  The correct cable (1/4 "balanced") makes all the difference!  Just, wow...

In the words of the immortal Homer Simpson...'dohh!'. Lol

 

Glad you found the problem and are enjoying your Pod Go with your HR108. 

[benthere77]

So it turns out when you use the right cable the HeadRush 108 is actually fan-f'ing-tastic!  We just had a small concert in my living room. The backing tracks sounds like a full band playing in the house.  (Also sounds good when you turn it down..btw)

Thank you for your help!   

[grdGo33]

Wow quite surprising how long an unbalanced cable were you running?  I'd have expected marginally less noise and maybe the tiniest amount of volume...  But if you're not running like 30+ feet long cables, I'd have expected the difference to be barely noticeable, especially if all you're running is like 5 of 10 feet of cable...!

[voxman55]

9 hours ago, benthere77 said:

So it turns out when you use the right cable the HeadRush 108 is actually fan-f'ing-tastic!  We just had a small concert in my living room. The backing tracks sounds like a full band playing in the house.  (Also sounds good when you turn it down..btw)

Thank you for your help!   

 

Once (hopefully) I can get back to gigging I was thinking of buying a powered speaker and the HR108 looks a strong contender both as backline or, where I can go into the PA, as a monitor.  Out of interest, is the HR108 loud and clear enough for gigging as a backline with a heavy handed drummer?  

[benthere77]

It was just a 10 foot cable but it turns out there is a huge difference in sound quality and also really a huge difference between an instrument cable and a balanced/shielded cable.  Actually I'm lucky I didn't damage the speaker from what I've read.  

 

The sound quality is now BETTER out of the frfr speaker than the headphones (even though it's just a single speaker and therefore not stereo).  Great "problem" to have!

I can't believe I was going to send this thing back...

[benthere77]

3 hours ago, voxman55 said:

 

Once (hopefully) I can get back to gigging I was thinking of buying a powered speaker and the HR108 looks a strong contender both as backline or, where I can go into the PA, as a monitor.  Out of interest, is the HR108 loud and clear enough for gigging as a backline with a heavy handed drummer?  

 

Check out the reviews on Sweetwater and also I believe I saw some posts on this speaker in the Helix forum.  I've only played it in the house so far but I had it maybe on "3" with  my Pod GO halfway up and it was very loud and full.  I had a backing track playing through YouTube and it sounded like a full band was in the house.  

All of the comments/reviews I've seen on the subject indicate that the HR108 is more than sufficient to gig with and accommodate a loud drummer, etc.  If there's any question you could just move up to the next speaker size.

 

 

[grdGo33]

35 minutes ago, benthere77 said:

It was just a 10 foot cable but it turns out there is a huge difference in sound quality and also really a huge difference between an instrument cable and a balanced/shielded cable.  Actually I'm lucky I didn't damage the speaker from what I've read. 

 

Also just because that doesn't make much sense to me, if you use that same cable to connect your guitar to the Go, does it change anything to the sound?

 

Also what was your Global Settings Main Out setting?  Line or instrument?  I'm now thinking that if you had it to instrument and the was still able to amplify the very low signal, that could have very well have killed your sound quality; I don't think the FRFR is designed for instrument level signals.  And maybe with balanced the Go automatically switch to line level? 

 

Did the volume output change much between both cables?  That or a bad cable would be logical explanations of why it sounded so much worse than balanced...  Otherwise; really really surprised going balanced would make such drastic difference!   o.0   But if you had it set to 'instrument' and tried again with 'line', it really should sound the same, just make sure you lower your FRFR volume before switching!  (could be super loud after changing!)

[voxman55]

Thanks @benthere77 - having done some research, it appears the HR FRFR 112 is exactly the same speaker as the Alto Truesonic TS312 which sells for around £230 rather than £270 for the Headrush version.  And the TS308 (£199) is identical to the HR FRFR108 (circa £215).  But the 1x12 is a lot bigger & heavier & I like the greater compactness of the HR FRFR 108/AT TS308. 

[benthere77]

1 hour ago, grdGo33 said:

 

Also just because that doesn't make much sense to me, if you use that same cable to connect your guitar to the Go, does it change anything to the sound?

 

Also what was your Global Settings Main Out setting?  Line or instrument?  I'm now thinking that if you had it to instrument and the was still able to amplify the very low signal, that could have very well have killed your sound quality; I don't think the FRFR is designed for instrument level signals.  And maybe with balanced the Go automatically switch to line level? 

 

Did the volume output change much between both cables?  That or a bad cable would be logical explanations of why it sounded so much worse than balanced...  Otherwise; really really surprised going balanced would make such drastic difference!   o.0   But if you had it set to 'instrument' and tried again with 'line', it really should sound the same, just make sure you lower your FRFR volume before switching!  (could be super loud after changing!)

 

 

When I was using the wrong cable I did have my "Main Out" set to Line.  The cable really makes all the difference.  There are a couple of short but informative YouTube videos on the differences between an instrument cable and a balance/shielded cable.  

The volume output didn't change drastically, it just got more consistent when changing between presets.  With the old cable the volume seemed all over the place.  

Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers do you like for the Pod Go (or whatever device you use)?  Are you referring to studio monitors or just other powered speakers that aren't "frfr"?

[grdGo33]

2 hours ago, benthere77 said:

When I was using the wrong cable I did have my "Main Out" set to Line.  The cable really makes all the difference.  There are a couple of short but informative YouTube videos on the differences between an instrument cable and a balance/shielded cable.  The volume output didn't change drastically, it just got more consistent when changing between presets.  With the old cable the volume seemed all over the place. 

 

That's what's really strange, shouldn't make the preset volumes be more or less consistent, and with 10 feet cable the noise difference should be barely perceptible...  Maybe FRFR 108 really doesn't like unbalanced?  Anyway, problem solved is what's important!

 

2 hours ago, benthere77 said:

Just out of curiosity, what kind of speakers do you like for the Pod Go (or whatever device you use)?  Are you referring to studio monitors or just other powered speakers that aren't "frfr"?

 

I'm using DIY Seas 2 way bookshelves speakers, but also tried with more budget 2 way Vifa DIY and it also worked perfectly.  I don't think it really matters as long as the speakers are decent, if they do fine with music they'll do fine with Go; music is much more demanding so if you keep SPL reasonable really nothing 'special' required for Go!  (Better speakers = better sound, but diminishing return applies, so I really wouldn't go crazy...)

[bsem]

Great seeing this thread and solution. I picked up my FRFR-108 today at lunch and just reading this at work. I quickly went and purchased a 10' TRS cable just now. I excpect now that I should have a good first impression/experience of the setup when I try this evening.

[bklicky2]

I have the HR 12 which is way better than the QSC that I started with. I too like the sound better through my monitors and headphones although it is not "bad". I am gonna try the balanced cable and see if this does the trick. Thanks guys

 

I got a balanced cable and moved the HR12 off the floor along with making some of the changes suggested above. VOILA - the whole setup sounds much much better.  Its a tiny bit harsh at the top and bottom end compared to  my headphones and studio monitors but I think that can be handled through patch tweaking. I also have NOT tested that speaker at more than 3 on the volume because it is in coronavirus isolation.  I suspect it will sound better when it has room to move some air.

Edited July 26, 2020 by bklicky2
update

[benthere77]

15 hours ago, bsem said:

Great seeing this thread and solution. I picked up my FRFR-108 today at lunch and just reading this at work. I quickly went and purchased a 10' TRS cable just now. I excpect now that I should have a good first impression/experience of the setup when I try this evening.

 

14 hours ago, bklicky2 said:

I have the HR 12 which is way better than the QSC that I started with. I too like the sound better through my monitors and headphones although it is not "bad". I am gonna try the balanced cable and see if this does the trick. Thanks guys

 

 

 

I'm glad my follies were able to help you guys out.  The correct cable makes all the difference.  I was literally about to send both my Pod GO and HR108 back to Sweetwater.

 

One other important thing on that HR 108.  If you are playing in your house be sure and get the speaker off the ground a little bit. Or at the very least angle it facing up.  This is already a very bassy/boomy speaker and if it's just sitting on the floor it accentuates that.
 

 

[bklicky2]

you are absolutely right about getting off the floor. I found a stool and man that muddy low end just disappeared. thanks

 

[voxman55]

All my amps at home are on a slightly raised plinth to get them off the floor. Back in the days when I was running Valvetronix.net the first piece of advice I'd give re getting good tone at home, rehearsal or gig was 'get it off the floor' or at least angle it up. Otherwise a chunk of your sound is going into the floor - less of an issue on wooden floors, but a big issue on carpeted or even stone floors. 

 

[voxman55]

Its my birthday on Monday (21 again!!) and my wife and eldest daughter (bless em) are buying me a Headrush FRFR108 with Gator bag, to play my Pod Go and Tonelabs through for rehearsals and gigging (when I'll likely connect it to FOH and use it as a monitor cab)...and home, when everyone is out! Lol. Should sound a lot better than going through one of my amps, and it's really compact and light.

Having checked, there is a difference with the TS308 and the Headrush is better for purer FRFR. Also, Amazon Prime have a great deal on with the Headrush 108 at £179 plus £30 for Gator carry bag all with free delivery. 

[voxman55]

Received my pressy today. Still in boxes so I'll unpack later and try it out tomorrow although I wont be able to play at any volume.  

[voxman55]

Just tried it today whilst my wife popped out - one word...STUNNING!!     Way, way better than I was expecting. I can't believe that the main speaker is only 8".   Is it as good as headphones?  I have a great set of Audio Technica ATHM50x headphones which the Pod Go sounds great through - and if anything my Pod Go sounds even BETTER with the Headrush FRFR108!  I'm absolutely chuffed and would thoroughly recommend it!! 

[johnnyrayprout]

I might have some info to help, my apologies if someone has already mentioned, as I did not go thru all responses. I had a huge problem where i could not get the hi end tones to cut thru during a solo, etc. My Headrush 112 was so loud, but I wasn't cutting thru the rest of the band during solos, etc. In each preset, I dragged the treble all the way to max on all effects, and was still not cutting thru (all the while, headphones sounded GREAT). Then, I discovered "Global EQ", which obviously gives you the starting point for ALL presets that you have saved. Apparently, all of the tone-based settings for each pedal on the presets are actually "fine-adjust" settings, while the Global EQ is the "coarse-adjust"....Well, I got into Global settings, dragged the high-end up on the EQ, and it cuts thru like butter now. I understand your issue in your post was "FRFR vs. Headphones" sound, but my output sound is exactly what I had hoped for. I honestly don't understand why Line 6 doesn't mention this on Page 1 of Quickstart instructions, as it probably would alleviate many complaints, and if it is in the manual, sorry if  I missed it...Anyways, hope to hear if this helps, and Rock On 

[voxman55]

On 8/15/2020 at 12:31 AM, johnnyrayprout said:

I might have some info to help, my apologies if someone has already mentioned, as I did not go thru all responses. I had a huge problem where i could not get the hi end tones to cut thru during a solo, etc. My Headrush 112 was so loud, but I wasn't cutting thru the rest of the band during solos, etc. In each preset, I dragged the treble all the way to max on all effects, and was still not cutting thru (all the while, headphones sounded GREAT). Then, I discovered "Global EQ", which obviously gives you the starting point for ALL presets that you have saved. Apparently, all of the tone-based settings for each pedal on the presets are actually "fine-adjust" settings, while the Global EQ is the "coarse-adjust"....Well, I got into Global settings, dragged the high-end up on the EQ, and it cuts thru like butter now. I understand your issue in your post was "FRFR vs. Headphones" sound, but my output sound is exactly what I had hoped for. I honestly don't understand why Line 6 doesn't mention this on Page 1 of Quickstart instructions, as it probably would alleviate many complaints, and if it is in the manual, sorry if  I missed it...Anyways, hope to hear if this helps, and Rock On 

 

The Quick Start section is, by definition, only intended to quickly get you started with some basics!   You need to read the rest of the manual for more advanced stuff - Global EQ and resetting Global EQ is specifically shown in the contents list of the manual, and when you click on this (online version) it takes you to p31:

 

 

[johnnyrayprout]

You are correct, it is there, but my reason for pointing this out is that it is probably the most important setting to get an acceptable tone, and it's only casually mentioned because it's a page (or screen) in the programming that they have to mention. In my view, you should be instructed to go here first, when building a preset, just to start off with a useable tone. As I said earlier, it sounds great now

[voxman55]

1 hour ago, johnnyrayprout said:

You are correct, it is there, but my reason for pointing this out is that it is probably the most important setting to get an acceptable tone, and it's only casually mentioned because it's a page (or screen) in the programming that they have to mention. In my view, you should be instructed to go here first, when building a preset, just to start off with a useable tone. As I said earlier, it sounds great now

 

I completely disagree - I've had Pod Go for nearly 2 months now you should be able to get great tones without having to revert to the Global EQ. Global EQ is only intended to help compensate for different external factors eg room ambience, band mix, external speakers, where you might need a global adjustment to adapt every patch.  If you use Global EQ when building a patch, when you change environments or external gear, you'll have to keep changing this every time - if you build your patches without these you'll only rarely need to change these and when you can switch this off when you don't need it.  In other words your basic patch build without Global EQ should be your key stable reference point. The onboard EQ, amp settings, speaker settings, mic selection, dB levels of these inc main out and effects etc all impact on what you hear.  Also, Global EQ only impacts on main out and phones, and has no effect if you are running Amp Out or USB Out.  

 

Further, if you share or download patches these will all be impacted by your change to global settings and give you and others a 'false image' of tones because their Global EQ won't match yours.  What I've been really impressed with is just how natural and amp like Pod Go is which was a real concern to me having been used to the warm valve like tone from my Vox Tonelab SE/LE units.

 

This is a single patch I created using snap shots, and I made a demo of only yesterday, where I intended that it could be used for a range of different styles. I recorded this yesterday using Audacity with no external editing, going from clean to rock raunch, with an additional 70's chorus option:

 

 

[cristt]

completely agree with voxman55. Global eq is not the primary source for creating a tone. Should be the last, and only if needed. Everyone should be able to dial in a good tone with standard amp and effects controls. Global eq is just for fine tuning the overall sound of the pod go output, for all the patches, like to compensate what's AFTER the pod go (speakers, room/concert hall sound, etc...).

[cristt]

2 hours ago, voxman55 said:

...

Further, if you share or download patches these will all be impacted by your change to global settings and give you and others a 'false image' of tones because their Global EQ won't match yours.  What I've been really impressed with is just how natural and amp like Pod Go is which was a real concern to me having been used to the warm valve like tone from my Vox Tonelab SE/LE units.

...

 

 

hey I'm also planning to switch from the tonelab SE to the pod go. Did you find any difficulties going to the pod go? I'm using quite a lot the double amp configuration for each patch of the tonelab, do you manage to achieve the same functionality like using snapshots or a multi-control assigned switch in pedal mode?

 

[voxman55]

16 hours ago, cristt said:

 

hey I'm also planning to switch from the tonelab SE to the pod go. Did you find any difficulties going to the pod go? I'm using quite a lot the double amp configuration for each patch of the tonelab, do you manage to achieve the same functionality like using snapshots or a multi-control assigned switch in pedal mode?

 

Are you sure you have a Tonelab SE??  Because if you mean using 2 amp models at once in the same patch neither Tonelab SE nor Pod Go has a double amp configuration.  Also, Tonelab SE has no snapshot facility and only a single Control switch.  Pod Go gives you  global volume and wah switching - with Tonelab SE you had to select wah from the pedal selection and then couldn't use anything else.   If you mean stomp mode, then yes Pod Go gives you patch, stomp & snap shot mode.  Pod Go has snapshots and multiple footswitch assignment options including the ability  (as I've done) to add 2 external footswitches.  The biggest functionality change is that Pod Go has fixed &  variable user 'blocks' and uses dynamic DSP whereas the options & DSP are fixed in Tonelab SE.  It takes a little why to get used to the differences and how to use Pod Go but the Pod Go quality and choice of tones is superb - it's way more sophisticated and whereas Tonelab SE is pretty much plug and play, you'll need to learn how Pod Go works to get the best from it.  The cab models in Tonelab SE were its biggest limitation tonally - the options in Pod Go and the ability to import IR's is terrific.  Of all the MFX units I've tried, Pod Go is the first one where I'm convinced I can retire my Tonelab SE & LE. 

[cristt]

21 minutes ago, voxman55 said:

Are you sure you have a Tonelab SE??  Because if you mean using 2 amp models at once in the same patch neither Tonelab SE nor Pod Go has a double amp configuration.   

 

yeah sorry of course I mean double amp settings (green and red if you know what I mean) 

[voxman55]

4 hours ago, cristt said:

 

yeah sorry of course I mean double amp settings (green and red if you know what I mean) 

 

Ah, got you, and good point - sadly no - you can't change an amp or cab in the same patch using snapshots.  You can only do that in Helix or Helix LT.  In a 'snap' you can change parameters of the same amp,  you can switch on/off or change any parameters of any of the pedals in the patch, but unlike Tonelab SE you can't switch between different amp and cab models.  But in practice I rarely used that facility anyway and when I did it was typically to go from a clean to light crunch or higher gain.  The only way to switch between different amp/cab models is to change patches.  But you can gain stage in a Snap by altering amp and adding/changing pedal parameters (eg  using one or more distortions) so you've got a lot of options.

 

TLSE has 'static' DSP - you can select all the combinations available but eg you can't select two pedals from the pedal section. With Dynamic DSP,  you have flexibility to fully use the available DSP - but if you choose certain amp & effect models (eg spring reverb) that need to use more DSP processing power, your choices may be restricted for certain amp/effects models and/or in extreme cases you maight only have access to eg 3 rather than the full 4 user blocks.  I researched all this heavily - see posts here - but in reality it's not a problem because there are tons of options to use different lower DSP draining versions of eg delays & reverbs - way more than in TLSE.   I'm now used to it and all the patches I've created give me the full 4 blocks where I need them. 

[cristt]

thanks voxman55. yeah I also was using the "green and red" settings of the tonalab for adding gain/volume without changing the whole amp. So giving what you said I think I'll can handle that easily with the Pod Go with snapshots or changing parameters with a footswitch. thanks a lot! 

[voxman55]

4 hours ago, cristt said:

thanks voxman55. yeah I also was using the "green and red" settings of the tonalab for adding gain/volume without changing the whole amp. So giving what you said I think I'll can handle that easily with the Pod Go with snapshots or changing parameters with a footswitch. thanks a lot! 

No probs.  Aside from having access to all new modelling , effects & features (as good as the TLSE still is, it was launched 16 years ago - that's a long time ago in the modelling world, which shows you how well its lasted, how advanced it was at the time, and in some ways still is!) the BIG thing for me as an 'oldie' is I desperately needed something compact and light. The TLSE is a big, heavy unit - with it's heavy duty power-supply it weighs around the same as a full Helix, and it's overall physical size isn't much different!  At 63 I just don't want to carry the weight of big MFX and heavy amps anymore!   One thing I miss though is it's long, heavy duty cable & PSU with mid-position transformer with its own on/off switch. The TLSE/TLLE and their PSU's ere built like tanks!   The Pod Go PSU  is small, light -  but it has a thin short cable and isn't robust for gigging, so i'll have to make sure I have a back-up when (eventually in the UK) we get back to gigging!   But it's pros and cons - I love that Pod Go switches on every patch between Volume & Wah (a big reason I gigged with the TLSE  apart from A/B switching was its dual volume/expression pedal layout, rather than the smaller, lighter TLLE that I also have).  The Pod Go is a joy from that perspective alone as wah is pre-programmed in by default whereas you have to manually select wah in each patch you wanted in the TLSE, and then that was your pedal option used up!