Parametric EQ moves on clean tones

[Guest]

Hello folks!

 

I'm a Helix user since 2017 and recently I've really opened my eyes regarding post and pre EQ:in guitars to clean up the sound. I've got a good grip on the subject when it comes to hi gain metal sounds but......today suddenly got thinking....do this approach - in general - also apply to clean tones?

 

What do you do and what's your approach on this?

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, Azzopardi85 said:

What do you do and what's your approach on this?

Hi,

 

This is a really handy reference, actually named as “the only EQ chart you will ever need for your mix”

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[codamedia]

Different EQ styles and placements all have a purpose. Yes, they can be equally as effective with clean tones as they are with overdriven tones.

 

My electric presets always include the following.... 

1. A stomp style EQ before the amp... just like having an EQ on a pedal board. These EQ's can have a dramatic effect on the amp response. 
2. A MESA style EQ between the AMP and CAB/IR. This shapes tone without effecting the amp response. 
3. A parametric after the amp/cab... this is for final tone shaping and filters (HPF/LPF) when required. I rarely use this EQ other than the filters but I still like to have it available. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Different EQ styles and placements all have a purpose. Yes, they can be equally as effective with clean tones as they are with overdriven tones.

 

My electric presets always include the following.... 

1. A stomp style EQ before the amp... just like having an EQ on a pedal board. These EQ's can have a dramatic effect on the amp response. 
2. A MESA style EQ between the AMP and CAB/IR. This shapes tone without effecting the amp response. 
3. A parametric after the amp/cab... this is for final tone shaping and filters (HPF/LPF) when required. I rarely use this EQ other than the filters but I still like to have it available. 

 

Yeah, thats the way I've been handling the EQ:ing for the last couple of weeks (where I suddenly learned a lot) when sculpting hi gain sounds. Major improvement on the sounds since without the EQ:ing, my tones are super honky and just....terrible.

 

One thing that I'm a bit concerned about is that I feel I need to EQ a lot in order to make my tones sit anywhere near in a mix. I play on a Solar Guitar tuned to C-standard and with a Cali EQ between the amp and IR:s I usually need to take out -6-8db of 750hz and a good -4-6db of 240hz. It might be a normal thing to do but feels a bit weird reducing at that amount of db:s. It sounds a lot better though so...who cares...

 

I also run two parametric EQ:s last in the chain where I notch out a few of the disturbing frequencies you typically find in 2x12 and 4x12 cabs. And I finally start to really like the sounds I'm getting out of the Helix!

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, Azzopardi85 said:

with a Cali EQ between the amp and IR:s I usually need to take out -6-8db of 750hz and a good -4-6db of 240hz. It might be a normal thing to do but feels a bit weird reducing at that amount of db:s. It sounds a lot better though so...who cares...

 

The CALI EQ in that position is magical! Your cuts are pretty normal in my view.

If you look at an EQ chart of a Blackface Fender (that clean mid scooped fender tone).... the 700HZ range has a huge cut, more than anything you are cutting. 

 

1 hour ago, Azzopardi85 said:

I also run two parametric EQ:s last in the chain where I notch out a few of the disturbing frequencies you typically find in 2x12 and 4x12 cabs. And I finally start to really like the sounds I'm getting out of the Helix!

 

Are you using the Stock Cabs? I find spending some time with mic choice and position can substantially reduce the EQ required. Sound techs and studio engineers are masters of these techniques.... try to stay away from corrective EQ until you have no choice. 

 

What do you monitor your Helix through? 

[DunedinDragon]

I also think that any discussion regarding EQ is pointless until you've settled your decisions regarding the type of cab/IR your using along with what combination of mics and mic placements you're using.  THAT is really the source of what you and your audience are primarily hearing as it is on most stages and certainly in all studio settings.  That is what you're trying to match when you're trying to capture the guitar tone of any recorded passage, and no matter how big a collection of amps and cabinets you see on a concert stage, you're hearing the sound that's being projected across the colosseum or arena through a line array of technically sophisticated speakers which was captured by very creative and clever use of stage mics.

In my experience and in the experience of many others, you tend to find certain types of cabinets, mics and placement your ear will almost always favor regardless of the style of music you play.  You likely would never use a Celestion Blue Bell for high gain tones, just as you'd not likely use a Greenback for jazz.  Beyond that it's purely a matter of small corrective actions with EQ that gives you the fit and finish for the sound you're after.  It's also a lot easier and faster to do it that way.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

The CALI EQ in that position is magical! Your cuts are pretty normal in my view.

If you look at an EQ chart of a Blackface Fender (that clean mid scooped fender tone).... the 700HZ range has a huge cut, more than anything you are cutting. 

 

 

Are you using the Stock Cabs? I find spending some time with mic choice and position can substantially reduce the EQ required. Sound techs and studio engineers are masters of these techniques.... try to stay away from corrective EQ until you have no choice. 

 

What do you monitor your Helix through? 

 

Nope, I exclusively use OwnHammer IR:s and got a bunch of them of which I mix and match with the corresponding amps in Helix (if it works well sound wise...). I only use my Helix at home - don't do any gigging since I'm not in a band - so I'm monitoring through a pair of Ultrasone Pro 2500 open headphones. Got a pair of Kali LP6 monitors but my studio is very badly situated acoustically so I'm not using them at the moment. And out of those circumstances I feel that my rather extensive EQ:ing has really helped my sounds so far.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

I also think that any discussion regarding EQ is pointless until you've settled your decisions regarding the type of cab/IR your using along with what combination of mics and mic placements you're using.  THAT is really the source of what you and your audience are primarily hearing as it is on most stages and certainly in all studio settings.  That is what you're trying to match when you're trying to capture the guitar tone of any recorded passage, and no matter how big a collection of amps and cabinets you see on a concert stage, you're hearing the sound that's being projected across the colosseum or arena through a line array of technically sophisticated speakers which was captured by very creative and clever use of stage mics.

In my experience and in the experience of many others, you tend to find certain types of cabinets, mics and placement your ear will almost always favor regardless of the style of music you play.  You likely would never use a Celestion Blue Bell for high gain tones, just as you'd not likely use a Greenback for jazz.  Beyond that it's purely a matter of small corrective actions with EQ that gives you the fit and finish for the sound you're after.  It's also a lot easier and faster to do it that way.

 

Okay, cool, well, I'm pretty much settled when it comes to which OwnHammer IR:s and which mic combinations I think sounds the best for the particular amp. I'm mostly using the mic versions of the IR:s and I load every single mic there is into the Helix and from there I audition which mic combinations sounds the best for that specific amp.

 

I use the Mesa/Boogie Recto Oversized and Traditional 4x12 cabs a lot because they generally are very balanced sounding but I use a few other brands as well (I really like the visual fantasy of having a brand matching cab and amp even though it's strictly in my head......). And when I got the tone I want in the ballpark I'll engage the EQ:s and go from there to take me as close as I can get to a sound I really dig.

[codamedia]

15 hours ago, Azzopardi85 said:

Got a pair of Kali LP6 monitors but my studio is very badly situated acoustically so I'm not using them at the moment. And out of those circumstances I feel that my rather extensive EQ:ing has really helped my sounds so far.

 

Do what you have to do to make things sound right. Since you are not gigging on a variety of systems it really doesn't matter how you come up with it as long as you get what you want. 

 

Creating tones that translate across multiple systems and listening environments is an art of it's own.... and it's important for me to do that with my "live" tones. My studio tones (the ones I play at home and often record with) are much different, and I'll approach it more like you do.... "just make it sound good regardless of how you do it" :) 

[DunedinDragon]

17 hours ago, Azzopardi85 said:

 

Okay, cool, well, I'm pretty much settled when it comes to which OwnHammer IR:s and which mic combinations I think sounds the best for the particular amp. I'm mostly using the mic versions of the IR:s and I load every single mic there is into the Helix and from there I audition which mic combinations sounds the best for that specific amp.

 

I use the Mesa/Boogie Recto Oversized and Traditional 4x12 cabs a lot because they generally are very balanced sounding but I use a few other brands as well (I really like the visual fantasy of having a brand matching cab and amp even though it's strictly in my head......). And when I got the tone I want in the ballpark I'll engage the EQ:s and go from there to take me as close as I can get to a sound I really dig.

And that's why the original question you asked is pretty much irrelevant unless the person is using the same cabinet/ir/mic setup....not to mention the same type of guitar and general output system.  But your process appears to be a decent one so the EQ aspects should be relatively, the same as I would expect your high gain EQ to be.  I personally experience very little difference in my EQ between high gain songs and clean songs other than guitar specific differences between using a Les Paul, a Tele, a Strat, acoustic, banjo or a Gretsch Silver Eagle or Resonator.  Technique can also have a certain amount of impact such as whether using a pick, finger picking, hybrid or using slide.

 

 

[cgar18]

thank you guys I tried what I read on here and it sweetened the sound I had.