EXP1, 2 & 3

[joeloduca]

Hello All,

 

I don't understand the internal workings of the 3 expression pedals in the line6 Helix.  I am a bit of a control freak on guitar. I like to have my hands and feet on every aspect of tone.  So I have 2 external volume pedals connected to my helix. What I am shooting for is this: EXP1 will be overall volume of every program and that is my internal volume on the physical helix.  External EXP2 is something I might assign to the "intensity" of any distortion effect I have.  External EXP3: is the reverb "MIX" that is on all programs.  I of course know how to assign the expressions to individual parameters I want to control. When I assign EXP2 to the "gain" of my distortion for example, it basically works. When I assign the reverb "Mix" to EXP3, it ends up using EXP2. So I ending up with distortion and reverb mix being controlled by the same EXP2 and their intensities grow with volume growth. I notice something else too, its like the EXP number is dynamic. in other words, if I plug no external volume pedels into this and turn it on, the INTERNAL volume pedal comes up as EXP2. 1 & 3 are nothing.  If I plug something into the exp2 jack in the back of helix, the my internal volume becames EXP1, the external connected to EXP2 becomes the EXP2 controller. If I plug something into EXP3 jack, I am no long sure what assignments occur any more.. Its like this thing has a mind of its own. 

 

I tried an alternative which is closer to a solution:  I connected the MIDI in with the MIDI out of my helix. -Going to set up the helix to send out MIDI CC's to do what I want to accomplish.  So I went into "command center" and grabbed the EXP2 pedal and made it CC#11 and made EXP3 CC#8. So I assigned these CC's to the effect parameters I want to alter at a performance.  -- All that worked.. but my internal volume pedal breaks when things are in this mode.  The volume pedal block in Helix bases its volumes on EXP2 and it should be EXP1..   This is incredibly confusing.  Trying to look at life thru the eyes of a helix and its not making a bit of sense so far.

 

Anyone seen this with their Helix?

[phil_m]

Not exactly sure what’s happening here based on your description. One thing I’ll say is that if you don’t have a pedal plugged into the EXP2 jack, then the on-board pedal will toggle between EXP1 and EXP2 with the toe-switch controlling it (or whatever its state was when you saved a snapshot). EXP3 should remain unchanged and unaffected, and any assignments you made with EXP3 should stay set to EXP3.

[HonestOpinion]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:29 AM, joeloduca said:

Hello All,

 

I don't understand the internal workings of the 3 expression pedals in the line6 Helix.  I am a bit of a control freak on guitar. I like to have my hands and feet on every aspect of tone.  So I have 2 external volume pedals connected to my helix. What I am shooting for is this: EXP1 will be overall volume of every program and that is my internal volume on the physical helix.  External EXP2 is something I might assign to the "intensity" of any distortion effect I have.  External EXP3: is the reverb "MIX" that is on all programs.  I of course know how to assign the expressions to individual parameters I want to control. When I assign EXP2 to the "gain" of my distortion for example, it basically works. When I assign the reverb "Mix" to EXP3, it ends up using EXP2. So I ending up with distortion and reverb mix being controlled by the same EXP2 and their intensities grow with volume growth. I notice something else too, its like the EXP number is dynamic. in other words, if I plug no external volume pedels into this and turn it on, the INTERNAL volume pedal comes up as EXP2. 1 & 3 are nothing.  If I plug something into the exp2 jack in the back of helix, the my internal volume becames EXP1, the external connected to EXP2 becomes the EXP2 controller. If I plug something into EXP3 jack, I am no long sure what assignments occur any more.. Its like this thing has a mind of its own. 

 

I tried an alternative which is closer to a solution:  I connected the MIDI in with the MIDI out of my helix. -Going to set up the helix to send out MIDI CC's to do what I want to accomplish.  So I went into "command center" and grabbed the EXP2 pedal and made it CC#11 and made EXP3 CC#8. So I assigned these CC's to the effect parameters I want to alter at a performance.  -- All that worked.. but my internal volume pedal breaks when things are in this mode.  The volume pedal block in Helix bases its volumes on EXP2 and it should be EXP1..   This is incredibly confusing.  Trying to look at life thru the eyes of a helix and its not making a bit of sense so far.

 

Anyone seen this with their Helix?

 

One suggestion, don't assign EXP1 for volume, instead use EXP2. By default Helix assigns the Volume block to EXP2 and a Wah block to EXP1. You may think they should have done this the other way around, you won't be the first, but it is not worth the energy of constantly reassigning them or the resultant confusion that often ensues when you start making more complex assignments or add another expression pedal. Just start with the defaults(EXP2=Volume, EXP1=Wah) as your baseline. If you want to control some other block's parameter(s) instead of the Wah, use EXP1 or EXP3 if you have an external expression pedal connected. If the defaults drive you nuts you can design a template to use with the assignments you prefer but IMHO it isn't worth fighting the Helix's default behavior.

 

Note: If Line6 ever adds an option to allow controller and switch assignments to be stored along with Favorites or User Defaults I suppose one of the benefits would be making it much easier to use expression pedal and toeswitch assignments that don't use the current Helix defaults.

[brue58ski]

8 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

One suggestion, instead of assigning EXP1 for volume, instead use EXP2. By default Helix assigns the Volume block to EXP2 and a Wah block to EXP1. You may think they should have done this the other way around, you won't be the first, but it is not worth the energy of constantly reassigning them or the resultant confusion that often ensues when you start making more complex assignments or add another expression pedal. Just start with the defaults(EXP2=Volume, EXP1=Wah) as your baseline. If you want to control some other block's parameter(s) instead of the Wah, use EXP1 or EXP3 if you have an external expression pedal connected. If the defaults drive you nuts you can design a template to use with the assignments you prefer but IMHO it isn't worth fighting the Helix's default behavior.

 

Note: If Line6 ever adds an option to allow controller and switch assignments to be stored along with Favorites or User Defaults I suppose one of the benefits would be making it much easier to use expression pedal and toeswitch assignments that don't use the current Helix defaults.

 

Amen to this. I used to change the assignments. What a hassle. Agree with just stick tot the defaults and change your thinking. I think the idea is the volume pedal would always be on so is a secondary thing and the wah would be your effect that you would be switching in and out so therefore is primary. And of course using the toe switch to go to the wah results in the volume being turned all the way up and the wah pedal being where it would be in the "real" world. This is what you get when you have engineers overthinking stuff. This is from an engineer of sorts so I am guilty of the charge.

[joeloduca]

Thanks to you all for your input.  So I know I am not going nutz on this, others see it as well.  I did manage to solve my issues totally.  For a guitar player, I have pretty extensive knowledge of MIDI so I completely used the scenario I mention in my 2nd paragraph.  - and yes, I see the default EXP2 getting assigned to volume all the time.     

 

But in my scenario, I am setting up EXP2 & 3 to toss out MIDI continuous controller values every time an adjustment is made to those pedals.  So in connecting the MIDI in and out with a single cable, the HELIX is essentially generating (or encoding) a MIDI continuous controller message that it also receives and acts on from the 2 MIDI ports being connected together.   One of my favorite approaches to distortion effects is to do some sort of variable (drive or distortion) intensity along with gain compensation.   Its not perfect but close enough.  I can set up my favorite distortion or amp sound and have exp2 control the drive amount.  As that drive amount increases, (by default) so too does output volume.  But if you do inverse gain reduction with that same exp2 control, you can sweep the range of distortion from clean to very intense and have it (from gain compensation) come out at a fairly consistent output volume..   May not be every guitar players cup of tea, but it is mine..  I rewrote all my programs to do this and I can drop in any amp, any distortion and getting fairly consistent results.