Issue with Helix LT and Art DTI Box

[sabretooth24]

Hey everyone - I bought a new Art DTI Box to use with my Helix (originally to protect XLR from FOH phantom power) - wanted to send the mono 1/4" to the DTI Box and then go 1/4" from there to my FRFR speaker and XLR to FOH. However when using it yesterday (just with my FRFR) there was quite a bad buzz coming through it. I tried going to the second input and got the same buzz...tried different 1/4" cables and even  tried going Helix mono XLR out instead of 1/4" and still got the buzz. I even tried putting it (the DTI box) in between my guitar and audio interface on my pc (no Helix involved) and noticed a lot more noise when going through the DTI than bypassing it (got into a metal preset on Guitar Rig 5 and turned the noise gate off)...I guess I have a bad DTI box?

[codamedia]

Aside from the transformer quality, the two key features of a DI are "ground lift" and "pad". 

That DI doesn't have either. 

 

Usually a BUZZ is corrected by engaging a "ground lift"... that's why it's important :) 

 

[sabretooth24]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:02 PM, codamedia said:

Aside from the transformer quality, the two key features of a DI are "ground lift" and "pad". 

That DI doesn't have either. 

 

Usually a BUZZ is corrected by engaging a "ground lift"... that's why it's important :) 

 

Yeah this DTI box is a "Inline Transformer/Isolator Box" - it's supposed to take the original signal unaltered and route it through the outputs (and even stop any issues with hum). What blows my mind is that it's actually adding more hum in! I really wanted to use it in between my Helix and the FOH XLR to protect from phantom power but I can't understand why it would be introducing hum when doing it via the 1/4" ...I know a few people use them for a similar purpose with their Helix so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong or I have a dud?

[codamedia]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:34 PM, sabretooth24 said:

Yeah this DTI box is a "Inline Transformer/Isolator Box".....

 

.... I can't understand why it would be introducing hum when doing it via the 1/4"

 

It doesn't matter what they call it (that's marketing)... it's a direct box and they skimped out on two of the most important components. A Ground Lift and a PAD. The lack of a ground lift is why you can't get rid of the hum. Ground lifts are actually rarely needed - but when you do need them (eg: when a loop does occur), you NEED them!

 

Another reason it could be adding hum... a design using unshielded connections between the 1/4" in and 1/4" outs. In many situations that might be fine, but you happen to be set up in a place that exposes this weakness.  Try your setup in a new location... or even try moving the ART around. If the noise changes as you move it - this is the cause. 

 

[datacommando]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:37 PM, sabretooth24 said:

I guess I have a bad DTI box?

Hi,

 

The comments from “codamedia” are perfectly valid, but almost every review I have seen for this product has usually been around 4 out of 5 stars (Sweetwater, Amazon, etc.). There are some 2 star reviews on Amazon mentioning similar issues to yours - check those out - although ART have been in the audio game for quite some time and are reasonably well regarded.
 

I guess the reason why there isn’t a “ground lift” switch is because this box is designed to be an “always on” transformer. Having said that the “manual” for it is essentially a circuit diagram as the thing should be plug and play. 

 

Here’s a very old review from the U.K. Sound on Sound magazine - although it does mention this:- 

“The nominal 'ground' terminals of almost all the connectors are isolated from the case metalwork, but the sleeve of the TRS socket and pin 1 of the XLR for the channel 1 inputs are grounded directly to the case. A thoughtful inclusion is a screw terminal for an external ground wire.”

 

Original article here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/art-dti

Have you checked the option of adding an external ground wire to check that is functioning correctly.

 

I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that you might have a dud unit. As it is brand new, check with the dealer to see if you can swap it out for another one, or even another brand (unless you really need RCA connectors). Nothing to lose in asking.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[codamedia]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:59 AM, datacommando said:

The comments from “codamedia” are perfectly valid, but almost every review I have seen for this product has usually been around 4 out of 5 stars (Sweetwater, Amazon, etc.). There are some 2 star reviews on Amazon mentioning similar issues to yours - check those out -

 

In re-reading my response... I can see how it may sound like I'm very down on the ART unit. 

Actually I'm not... it looks like a decent device for it's price point and likely serves it's purpose for many people without issues.

 

Yes. it is possible the unit is faulty but I do have my doubts. I suspect the OP has been introduced to one of those situations that exposes the shortcomings of a product... a situation that many others may never experience. There is a reason why higher quality DI's exist, it's not just hype. 

[datacommando]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:54 PM, codamedia said:

In re-reading my response... I can see how it may sound like I'm very down on the ART unit. 

Actually I'm not... it looks like a decent device for it's price point and likely serves it's purpose for many people without issues.

 

I genuinely didn't think you were being critical of the unit - you simply pointed out your misgivings as to what was missing when compared to other options, e.g. Pad, Ground Lift, Polarity (phase) Reversal, Two Channel, etc.

 

There can be a world of difference in the transformers used in these things, but judging for the item he chose I guess price may be an issue. Maybe he's not in the market for Radial JDI, but I have seen good reports on many less expensive models that are not as noisy as one might expect, and are fitted with ground lift. It can be a bit of a minefield when it comes to this stuff.

[sabretooth24]

On 9/6/2022 at 10:52 PM, codamedia said:

 

It doesn't matter what they call it (that's marketing)... it's a direct box and they skimped out on two of the most important components. A Ground Lift and a PAD. The lack of a ground lift is why you can't get rid of the hum. Ground lifts are actually rarely needed - but when you do need them (eg: when a loop does occur), you NEED them!

 

Another reason it could be adding hum... a design using unshielded connections between the 1/4" in and 1/4" outs. In many situations that might be fine, but you happen to be set up in a place that exposes this weakness.  Try your setup in a new location... or even try moving the ART around. If the noise changes as you move it - this is the cause. 

 

My FRFR is an Alto TS310 - it has a ground lift switch in it and when I engage it the buzz is still there. I will try moving it around and see if that helps (also will be in a new studio this weekend so will see how it reacts in that environment).

[sabretooth24]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:42 AM, datacommando said:

 

I genuinely didn't think you were being critical of the unit - you simply pointed out your misgivings as to what was missing when compared to other options, e.g. Pad, Ground Lift, Polarity (phase) Reversal, Two Channel, etc.

 

There can be a world of difference in the transformers used in these things, but judging for the item he chose I guess price may be an issue. Maybe he's not in the market for Radial JDI, but I have seen good reports on many less expensive models that are not as noisy as one might expect, and are fitted with ground lift. It can be a bit of a minefield when it come s to this stuff.

Definitely chose the ART due to price point and flexibility with inputs and outputs - ideally I guess I should have just gotten a phantom power blocker...but I'm hoping if I try using it in between the Helix XLR out and FOH XLR in it will behave better than when going from TRS to my FRFR (live I will just be using it for the XLR outs but I was just testing it out at home on my TRS as I don't have a PA or mixer setup...still though it shouldn't be adding more noise to that signal chain).

[NickM62]

I've used the DTI from XLR out to FOH for several years with my LT and never had a problem.

Used mainly to block any rogue phantom power from the desks.

[codamedia]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:06 PM, sabretooth24 said:

My FRFR is an Alto TS310 - it has a ground lift switch in it and when I engage it the buzz is still there. I will try moving it around and see if that helps (also will be in a new studio this weekend so will see how it reacts in that environment).

 

On 9/6/2022 at 4:11 PM, sabretooth24 said:

I'm hoping if I try using it in between the Helix XLR out and FOH XLR in

 

A little of topic from this thread, but here's something to consider.... 

• I would connect directly to the ALTO using an XLR cable. There is no need to go through the ART since the ALTO doesn't have phantom power.
• I would then connect the 1/4" output from the Helix to the ART, then send an XLR to the FOH/Monitor from the ART. 
• That keeps the two outputs separated and allows me to apply the VOLUME and/or GLOBAL EQ to which ever output I want (usually just the XLR out to the FRFR)