HX Stomp and Powercab 212 Plus

[ercflyer]

I just picked up a PC 212 plus to have an "amp in room" for my hx stomp setup.  I have the stomp connected to the PC via trs cables both left and right respectively.  I am currently playing around with the stock presets between using the cab that was already pre selected in hx stomp with the PC set to flat stereo and then turning on the cab simulation on the stomp and using the built in PC speaker presets.  Should I have the PC set to FRFR when in flat mode or LR flat?  Also, I am having to manually adjust the LR mains output level quite a bit to get the PC green light to turn yellow and only red when I strum really aggressive.  With so many options it seems I have confused myself.  I am wondering if it would just be better to start fresh with blank presets and start building from scratch to use with the PC.  Finally, are their any really good IRs to load into the PC that have HX stomp preset to match with it?

[rd2rk]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, ercflyer said:

Should I have the PC set to FRFR when in flat mode or LR flat?

 

The PC+ series has 5 modes:

 

Flat Stereo - in this mode the HF Drivers (tweeters) are active and the LF Drivers are EQ'd to be as FLAT as possible. Use this when you have an HXS Cab or IR in the HXS Signal chain. You can sometimes get a more AITR sound by using MIDI to adjust the HF TRIM setting (HF Driver volume).

 

LF Flat - in this mode the HF Drivers are OFF and the LF Drivers are EQ'd to be as FLAT as possible.

 

LF Raw - in this mode the HF Drivers are OFF and the LF Drivers are not EQ'd - the natural sound of the Eminence speakers and the most AITR.

 

Speaker Emulation - in this mode the HF Drivers are OFF and the LF Drivers are EQ'd to sound like the selected speakers - V30, GB etc. - second most AITR.

 

EDIT: From the manual - 

SPEAKER MODE PARAMETERS
Intended to respond like a real guitar speaker for a traditional "amp-in-the-room" experience. This mode applies different tonal characteristics of the selected speaker model to the system's coaxial driver, with the following adjustable parameters.

IOW - What makes a Speaker Mode sound like the speaker is the EQ applied TO THE COAXIAL (HF) Driver, NOT the LF Driver as I previously thought.

END EDIT

 

USER IR - this is the same as FLAT STEREO but uses IRs loaded on the PC+ itself.

 

You can (and should) select the desired mode using MIDI, which you can also use to select the Speaker Emulation Type or USER IR. RTM!!!

 

On 10/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, ercflyer said:

Also, I am having to manually adjust the LR mains output level quite a bit to get the PC green light to turn yellow and only red when I strum really aggressive.

 

You weren't clear on how you are doing this, but you should not be using the HXS Volume Knob for this. SOP (IMO) is to leave this dimed, especially when using the PC+ XLR Outs to go to FOH. The PC+ Volume Knob does NOT affect the XLR Outs, but the HXS Output level DOES. This is why you level your presets with the PC+ Input Level LED, so you ALWAYS have the same level out to FOH.

 

Use the Channel Level on the HXS Amp models and downstream Cab Levels or Output Block Level parameter to set the PC+ Input Level. Since SOME FX that would typically be downstream of the Amp Block can be affected by the level they're hit with, start with them all OFF and once your PC+ Input Level is set add them back in and see how they sound, remaining aware of how they affect the PC+ Input Level and using their Output Levels to adjust as necessary.

 

Regarding the LED - if it's EVER in the red it should only be for the briefest of moments. When the signal is amber (yellow?) you have achieved optimum input level.

 

On 10/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, ercflyer said:

I am wondering if it would just be better to start fresh with blank presets and start building from scratch to use with the PC.

 

Yes. Use the Factory Presets to see how different amps and FX sound in various combinations, but you'll go crazy trying to make them work as "working" presets. If you find something you like you can use it as a starting point with the above points in mind, but that's not what the designers were thinking about when they created them. Learn to create your own presets as soon as you can.

 

On 10/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, ercflyer said:

Finally, are their any really good IRs to load into the PC that have HX stomp preset to match with it?

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. The PC+ comes stock with a small selection of "Allure" IRs. There's hundreds of FREE IRs available on the internet and tens of millions more are available for sale. Metalheads seem to prefer Ownhammer and York Audio are very popular for more general styles (what I prefer).

 

Start by finding out what speakers and cabs the Amp Model you're using originally came with and select an IR accordingly, but keep in mind that unless you're looking for "authenticity", the sound in your head could turn out to be a really strange match - a Fender twin with an Orange PPC412 for instance. Experimentation is FUN and often the source of the most creative, innovative sounds. Link Wray got his sound by taking a razor blade to his speakers!

 

Much of what I've said above comes from my own experience, but much of it comes from the dozens of excellent videos that Jason Sadites has made about using the Helix products and the Powercabs. Check out his videos on his YT Channel, especially the ones on GAIN STAGING. Priceless (and FREE)!

 

Last thought - the PC Edit program sucks. It's buggy as hell and a PITA to use. Get used to using the panel for everything but IR loading and preset management.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by rd2rk
Corrected info

[amsdenj]

Powercab pairs well with HX Stomp because you can use speaker or IR modeling in Powercab and off load it from HX Stomp, often saving a precious block. 

 

[PaulTBaker]

If you offload it (speaker or IR) to the PC, then you have to go from the PC to the FOH.  Correct?

[rd2rk]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:55 AM, PaulTBaker said:

If you offload it (speaker or IR) to the PC, then you have to go from the PC to the FOH.  Correct?

 

Yes.

[rwinking]

MAn, do I appreciate all of youguys that have been usig the powercabs for awhile! So in looking at this thread I am a little confused. I have tried the 212+ with my X Stomp and also with my Quad Core. Using MIDI I can get it to change the presets on the 212+. I started messing with the Allure IRs that come preloaded on the 212+ and have a question. I created a PC+ preset using the Allure IR that is something like and AC30. I have my QC set up to change the program to the preset with the IR. It sounds like with the IR the HF tweeter is still on. It should be Flat Stereo, correct? Maybe is is the nature of that IR but it still sounds like that tweeter is on in that it gives it a little high end distortion. It did it when I tried a Deluxe model also so I don't think it is the QC.. I do like the idea of being able to save some processing power on the X Stomp but probably will not need it one the QC.

[rd2rk]

When you use an IR you want the FRFR mode, which is Flat Stereo. In that mode (and User IR) the tweeter is ON.

That's why it's called FRFR - Full Range Flat Response. You don't get full range from a plain guitar speaker, which is what the co-axial speaker is without the HF Driver.

 

If you want to turn the HF Driver OFF you have 3 options. Create a Preset that uses LF RAW (speaker only/no eq) or LF Flat (speaker EQ'd to be flat) or send an additional MIDI command of CC#105 = 0 which is essentially the same as LF Flat.

 

You can also use CC#105 to reduce the output of the HF Driver without turning it OFF completely.

For example, a Value of 113 = 0db (the default) and a value of 105 = -6.5db.

[rwinking]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:44 PM, rd2rk said:

When you use an IR you want the FRFR mode, which is Flat Stereo. In that mode (and User IR) the tweeter is ON.

That's why it's called FRFR - Full Range Flat Response

Of course! That make perfect sense. I did not think it through. I think i will do the midi thing and back off the tweeter a bit as it sounds somewhat tinny. When I use and IR on the QC or HX Stomp, for some reasoon it sounds pretty natural. The IR on the PC doesn't but I will try some other IRs.

[rd2rk]

Using IRs on your modeler vs on the PC should sound the same, as in Flat Stereo Mode the signal just passes through from Input to Output. The Allure IRs just might not be your cup of tea. Try loading the same IRs you use on your modeler onto the PC if you're wanting to conserve DSP on the modeler, which is really the only reason to do it. Since I have a Helix, I use the digital (L6 Link) cable. That eliminates the possibility of the cable affecting the tone, but unless you use REALLY crappy cables, it shouldn't be a big factor.