Why IR's for HX effects and if so, how to use them.

[cmedcoff]

My understanding is that HX Effects is a unit for guitar players that want the tone of their "real tube amps" amps, their cabs and if they are miking then their mic's sound and all of the details of where it is positioned, etc.  Then there's multiple mics, etc.  Otherwise, if they wanted the simulated amps, cabs and all that, they'd be getting a Helix, no?

 

So if you are playing into an amp and cab then where to IR's come in?  Use it? Not use it? If you use it what are the rules? Where in the signal chain? Does it require 4 cable method?

[rd2rk]

Here's just three simple scenarios:

 

1 - Joe uses a Fender Deluxe for small gigs. No FX Loop. the HXFX is the world's biggest, tiniest pedalboard. IRs not needed.

 

2 - Joe's fly-rig has an AIAB in the HXFX Loop and runs out to an FRFR/FOH using an IR.

 

3- For serious R'n'R Joe LOVES his Triple Rec. He SPITS on digital amp sims!

No doubt though, the HXFX sounds good enough for FX, has lots of options and is a lot easier to deal with than a HUGE pedalboard.

He plugs his guitar into the HXFX, connects to the Triple Rec via 4cm (using SEND/RETURN1) and uses SEND2 to return to his amp's RETURN.

He places a Load Box/Attenuator between his Power Amp and MB OS 412 cab, then takes the Line Out from the Load Box back to HXFX RETURN2.

The signal then goes thru an IR of a MB OS 412 and Out to FOH.

Joe gets to hear his beloved Triple Rec onstage without vaporizing the fans in the front row and FOH gets a manageable signal for the Mains.

 

SUMMARY - The entire Helix family is about OPTIONS. Joe doesn't need 40 amp sims.

He does need the other options, including more footswitches than the HXS offers, and the Scribble Strips make it easy for Joe to set it all up and use.

[codamedia]

Two more scenario's, 

 

1: I've known a few players over the years that toss a CAB SIM at the end of their traditional pedal board and go direct. Loading an IR in the HX Effects would do the same thing, with more versatility.  

 

2: IR's are not only for CAB sims. In my Helix I use special IR's with my Dobro, Acoustic, Banjo and Mandolin... I wouldn't think twice of doing the same with an HX Effects. 

[crystalblues]

Seen in some FB groups where a guy uses a tube head and hx fx but runs it into a torpedo X capture, no cabs on stage. Goes FOH.

[loonsailor]

I use acoustic guitar IRs in my HX effects both when plugging my acoustic into it and when I want a semi-acoustic sound from my electric.  For that second use case I’ve switched to the acoustic simulator that got added in 3.1 (or 3.0?).  I’ve experimented with combining those IRS with the acoustic sim, but so far I prefer the sim alone.  Also, I’ve gratefully snarfed up the dobro IRS that codamedia so graciously created and posted.  So far I’m still plugging my dobro into its own preamp and bypassing the HXFX with my dobro, but I’m planning on going dobro->HXFX when I can play around with it.

 

btw, coda, where in the signal chain do you put the acoustic IRs- beginning, end or middle?  I haven’t figured out the best place yet.

[codamedia]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:11 AM, loonsailor said:

btw, coda, where in the signal chain do you put the acoustic IRs- beginning, end or middle?  I haven’t figured out the best place yet.

 

When using acoustic instruments, I always place the IR at the front of the signal chain. The way I see it... those IR's are more like adding a MIC to the instrument... and I want that tone as early as possible. The same applies to my Banjo, Mandolin, Classical and Acoustic IR's. All of my acoustic instruments are straight up PIEZO with a basic preamp... I really like adding the MIC tone to them.  

[cmedcoff]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:55 PM, rd2rk said:

Here's just three simple scenarios:

 

1 - Joe uses a Fender Deluxe for small gigs. No FX Loop. the HXFX is the world's biggest, tiniest pedalboard. IRs not needed.

 

2 - Joe's fly-rig has an AIAB in the HXFX Loop and runs out to an FRFR/FOH using an IR.

 

3- For serious R'n'R Joe LOVES his Triple Rec. He SPITS on digital amp sims!

No doubt though, the HXFX sounds good enough for FX, has lots of options and is a lot easier to deal with than a HUGE pedalboard.

He plugs his guitar into the HXFX, connects to the Triple Rec via 4cm (using SEND/RETURN1) and uses SEND2 to return to his amp's RETURN.

He places a Load Box/Attenuator between his Power Amp and MB OS 412 cab, then takes the Line Out from the Load Box back to HXFX RETURN2.

The signal then goes thru an IR of a MB OS 412 and Out to FOH.

Joe gets to hear his beloved Triple Rec onstage without vaporizing the fans in the front row and FOH gets a manageable signal for the Mains.

 

SUMMARY - The entire Helix family is about OPTIONS. Joe doesn't need 40 amp sims.

He does need the other options, including more footswitches than the HXS offers, and the Scribble Strips make it easy for Joe to set it all up and use.

 

I find the explanation for 3 rather difficult to follow.  I think the short answer is that you can use a combination of a load box and the send/return and IR capabilities of the HXFX to simulate his cab (or any cab/mic/position combination one can get their hands on) and then instead of going into the cab then goes into the house's sound board.  I understand he can also go into his cab, but that would be without a signal that has gone through the IR.

 

In short, none of these example scenarios include using an IR with an actual real cab, if I understand correctly.

[rd2rk]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:34 PM, cmedcoff said:

In short, none of these example scenarios include using an IR with an actual real cab, if I understand correctly.

 

You understand correctly. NORMALLY, one would NOT use an IR (a simulation of a mic'd guitar cab) into a REAL guitar cab.

Your question was:

 

On 11/22/2022 at 3:55 PM, cmedcoff said:

So if you are playing into an amp and cab then where to IR's come in?  Use it? Not use it? If you use it what are the rules? Where in the signal chain? Does it require 4 cable method?

 

#3 was an example of where IRs would come in, and where in the signal chain.

 

As for the RULES? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' RULES!!!

 

I have a Catalyst100. Sometimes, when I'm running my Helix into the RETURN of the Cat, I use a Helix amp AND a Cab!

BUT... But... the Catalyst is a Class D amp running into a guitar speaker in an open-back guitar cab! Why would I do that?

Because, IN ESSENCE, an IR is simply a different kind of tone control (yes, yes, it's more than that, blah blah).

I do it because I LIKE the way it sounds!

 

Which also answers your question about 4cm. No, it's NOT necessary.