Helix 3.50 DSP Allocations by Ben Vesco - just published!

[jmotherwell]

Ben Vesco has updated his Helix DSP Allocations info to reflect Helix v3.50. Find it at http://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/.

 

Giving it a quick look, we see direct proof of the reduced DSP for the new cab engine & 1024/2048 bit IR's. For example, legacy mono cabs in Helix consume 9.60, with the new cab engine, mono cabs consume 3.33. The new Moo)))n amps appear to be middle of the pack DSP-wise. PV Vitriol amps are the highest of all the amps, which is a surprise. What was saved on the cabs - goes into better amp modelling I suppose!

 

Some great work here by Ben Vesco. Support him if you can by buying some of his stuff!

[DJ5D]

it still disappoints and makes me head scratch, as to why with all the DSP savings, we cant have a new dual cab and an IR simultaneously. if it was all just DSP then theoretically it should work.

[silverhead]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:52 PM, DJ5D said:

it still disappoints and makes me head scratch, as to why with all the DSP savings, we cant have a new dual cab and an IR simultaneously. if it was all just DSP then theoretically it should work.

Can you not have both in the same preset? They may need to be on different paths for DSP reasons but I’m not aware of any architectural restriction preventing this. Perhaps I missed it.

[datacommando]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:52 PM, DJ5D said:

it still disappoints and makes me head scratch, as to why with all the DSP savings, we cant have a new dual cab and an IR simultaneously. if it was all just DSP then theoretically it should work.

This should stop you scratching your head - from the v3.50 Release Notes - the reasons are explained here:

 

New Cabs and IRs now use 66-80% Less DSP

Helix Floor, Helix Rack/Control, Helix LT, Helix Native, HX Effects [IRs only], HX Stomp, HX Stomp XL

 

 

Due to further improvements to Helix Core, new Cabs and 1024-point IRs use roughly 66% less DSP as older Hybrid cabs and IRs in 3.15 and earlier versions. A new Cab > Dual block uses less DSP than a single Hybrid cab block and the new IR > Dual block uses less DSP than a single IR block in 3.15. 2048-point IRs use roughly 80% less DSP, although they still use a lot of memory, so they're still limited to one instance per path. NOTE: Older Hybrid cabs use the same amount of DSP as in earlier firmware.

 

The important bit is - “they still use a lot of memory, so they're still limited to one instance per path.”
 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[DJ5D]

Nothing is explained there.

It's not that they are just "still limited to one instance per path"- that would imply that its the same as it always has been. Its not.

 

We have always been able to use a legacy dual cab + IR on an A/B path, that's the way it was and still is,  but you cannot use a NEW dual cab + IR in this manner.

 

Try making a simple patch with just an amp and a new dual on path A. Then try to put an IR on path B. It does not work.

 

In Helix Native using Floor compatibility mode, it doesn't work there either, so this impacts everyone, Floor and Stomp users alike. 

Does this make sense?

I'm currently talking to support to see if this is an oversight of some kind to be fixed in a future update, or if the new duals simply use too much memory and it's never going to be possible.

[DJ5D]

@jmotherwell

 

On 11/30/2022 at 4:45 PM, jmotherwell said:

Ben Vesco has updated his Helix DSP Allocations info to reflect Helix v3.50. Find it at http://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/.

 

 

It would be neat if Ben were also able to include memory allocation as well as DSP, that would help give what may be the final answer to this question.

[Kilrahi]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:08 AM, DJ5D said:

Nothing is explained there.

It's not that they are just "still limited to one instance per path"- that would imply that its the same as it always has been. Its not.

 

We have always been able to use a legacy dual cab + IR on an A/B path, that's the way it was and still is,  but you cannot use a NEW dual cab + IR in this manner.

 

Try making a simple patch with just an amp and a new dual on path A. Then try to put an IR on path B. It does not work.

 

In Helix Native using Floor compatibility mode, it doesn't work there either, so this impacts everyone, Floor and Stomp users alike. 

Does this make sense?

I'm currently talking to support to see if this is an oversight of some kind to be fixed in a future update, or if the new duals simply use too much memory and it's never going to be possible.

 

This has already been answered in other posts. They were able to update the cabs based upon some special ability of the SHARC processors inside. 

 

However, a trade off of doing that was the loss of the functionality you describe. This is not an oversight - it's by design. 

From what I understand, if you hate it you can go back to the legacy cabs and it will still work. 

[DJ5D]

OK here is the response I got from support on this. It doesnt explain it from the technical side, but in terms of practicality it does:

 

"Hi, here's the official word:

For Helix Floor, Rack, LT, and Native, it’s two new cabs per path (so 4 total). However, once you add two, you can still access the older Hybrid cabs.

For HX Stomp and Stomp XL, it’s two new cabs total, but you can still add older Hybrid cabs. (A new dual cab counts as two)

Basically, instead of the logic paying attention to the total number of cabs, it pays attention to the total number of cabs of each type. Amps follow the same logic—two per path."

 

Since my brain had been initially conditioned by the Stomp, I misunderstood how paths worked in Helix Native, now I can easily do what I wanted, which was to compare new duals to IRs in the same patch.