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Toggle Les Paul switch using footswitch


markwesse
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You know the old lp pickup switch right? U touch it lightly from center position and move bit back & forth u get a pulse of sound...like a square wave sequencer.

Cant quite do it the same on most 5 way switches so i would like to use a footswitch to tap the rhythm (using volume gain -120/+0 db

But

The foot switch response is so slow its useless

 

Has anyone else had success in emulating the switch gate effect?

Cheers

 

 

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It's hard to get that effect without going "electrical path", as it happens when signal is being sent to ground (so the signal is being instantly pulled). You usually get this by either pulling a toggle switch (a la Morello), or installing a Kill Switch that does send signal to ground when pressing the button. This should happen before hitting the preamps.

 

With the helix you can just turn volume/gain signal from 100 to 0, which isn't the same thing, even if done with a footswitch set to momentary 100/0/100.

 

I don't think it can be emulated properly.

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Well, that killswitch sound is basically tremolo. Go check a bunch of those effects and see what suits you the best. Set your tremolo mix to be 100%, so you have actual sound interruptions.  

 

You can also assign the rate parameter to the expression pedal and speed up the tremolo effect, or slow it down.
 

Or you also can try the “bleat chop trem” block which alters the tremolo tempo for you. So maybe that will be more natural sounding for you. That’s about it. 

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Nope. Isn't like a tremolo (that is just a modulation of the signal amplitude). :)

 

The signal in this case is being sent to ground, so isn't a volume drop that whatever you do, you'd still get a clean signal decay. The only way to get the proper "pop" and vacuum effect is to short the signal, before this is being sent to preamps (typically just between volume pot and output jack). Of course you need a grounded switch, to avoid the buzz.

 

Same thing when you do the effect with a Les Paul, switching between neck and bridge pup, one set to volume 100 and the other to 0. You are switching from a signal to output to a signal to ground, electrically and instantly.

 

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On 1/18/2023 at 10:45 PM, PierM said:

Nope. Isn't like a tremolo (that is just a modulation of the signal amplitude). :)

 

The signal in this case is being sent to ground, so isn't a volume drop that whatever you do, you'd still get a clean signal decay. The only way to get the proper "pop" and vacuum effect is to short the signal, before this is being sent to preamps (typically just between volume pot and output jack). Of course you need a grounded switch, to avoid the buzz.

 

Same thing when you do the effect with a Les Paul, switching between neck and bridge pup, one set to volume 100 and the other to 0. You are switching from a signal to output to a signal to ground, electrically and instantly.

 

Correct!

I have also mimiced  the effect in mixing before in various ways with a midi gate ie in cubase and its pretty much the same eg tapping in a syncopated beat or using audio amplitude with a threshold.

You can also easily do it in guitar rig with a step sequencer as a modifier and send it to anything eg gate or filter using a square wave output...or footswitch so i was hoping i could do the same in helix :-(

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On 1/18/2023 at 1:10 PM, markwesse said:

Correct!

I have also mimiced  the effect in mixing before in various ways with a midi gate ie in cubase and its pretty much the same eg tapping in a syncopated beat or using audio amplitude with a threshold.

You can also easily do it in guitar rig with a step sequencer as a modifier and send it to anything eg gate or filter using a square wave output...or footswitch so i was hoping i could do the same in helix :-(

 

What you did isnt the same as the stutter effect done with switch or a kill switch, because in your case it happens after preamps (so there is impedance load) and just with a signal gate. Pretty much the same as assigning a gain block to a momentary FS, and moving from 0dB to -120dB when pressed. This is just a post preamp digital volume drop. Maybe is good enough for you, so you could experiment with gain blocks, or an A/B split that jumps from A (pass through normal chain) to B (dead end, -120dB).

 

Still, wont sound like a real Kill Switch. :)

 

PS: another important factor for the stutter effect, is how fast is a switch...and those tactile switch in the helix are pretty slow (lot of switch bounce between 0 and 1)

 

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Installing a killswitch is not that difficult.  I remember around 12 years ago, everybody was doing that--removing a tone knob on their guitar and putting in a kill switch.  It's something that somebody can easily do if they're not afraid of opening up their guitar. 

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On 1/18/2023 at 11:39 PM, PierM said:

 

What you did isnt the same as the stutter effect done with switch or a kill switch, because in your case it happens after preamps (so there is impedance load) and just with a signal gate. Pretty much the same as assigning a gain block to a momentary FS, and moving from 0dB to -120dB when pressed. This is just a post preamp digital volume drop. Maybe is good enough for you, so you could experiment with gain blocks, or an A/B split that jumps from A (pass through normal chain) to B (dead end, -120dB).

 

Still, wont sound like a real Kill Switch. :)

 

PS: another important factor for the stutter effect, is how fast is a switch...and those tactile switch in the helix are pretty slow (lot of switch bounce between 0 and 1)

 

Thats what i tried yo do with helix...hence the post here

 

The midi gate was super quick and was close enough for live.

 

I have diff stuff plugged into helix depending on gig...

Classical, acoustic with condenser mic pup, banjo with similar mic, mandolin using irig stage, strat, lp supreme, ibanez jem etc you get the idea; id like something that goes across all that, else its limited so doing it first in signal chain will do the job...but as mentioned so far, not working well.

Im not a purist...hehe ill play a stick with strings...but also, without feedback to sustain or eg a rev/delay hold, its hard to get that glitch type thing convincingly and still be focused on playing ie chords, which is why i favour the footswitch; so its more like resonant chord effect (and why guitar rig works so well).

Impro is a huge part of the play and im doing percussion during that as well (single moveable mic on that)...so the timing of the stutter phrase is more like an old qs10/ms20 vibe ie response to timing is vital

Cheers

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So maybe it's not technically a tremolo but couldn't a tremolo work if it was set to square wave?  

I'm sure you could adjust it such that it sounds "close enough".

If you press and hold the "speed" control you can even assign that parameter to the expression pedal so you could have control over the speed of the pulses.

I dunno ... it's gotta be worth a try anyway.

 

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Imho your best option here is to create your own kill switch pedal to be placed between guitar and helix (or whatever pedal you have in front of helix). Still not 100% like a real kill switch, but at least you can build something fast and reliable, that does what it should and sounds properly. You'd just need a little metal enclosure, a grounded (and fast) SPST button that you can step on quickly, and two mono 1/4" jacks. Wired Tip to Tip and Slave to Slave, then the switch placed in between the tip of one of the two jacks, and the slave of the other. When you press the switch you'll send signal to ground, and that's it. The important part here is that the circuit MUST be placed BEFORE any preamp, as if you place after a preamp you are shorting its loaded signal, creating a loud POP.

 

Or just buy one of these; https://saturnworkspedals.com/product/kill-switch-pedal/

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On 1/19/2023 at 9:05 PM, PierM said:

Imho your best option here is to create your own kill switch pedal to be placed between guitar and helix (or whatever pedal you have in front of helix). Still not 100% like a real kill switch, but at least you can build something fast and reliable, that does what it should and sounds properly. You'd just need a little metal enclosure, a grounded (and fast) SPST button that you can step on quickly, and two mono 1/4" jacks. Wired Tip to Tip and Slave to Slave, then the switch placed in between the tip of one of the two jacks, and the slave of the other. When you press the switch you'll send signal to ground, and that's it. The important part here is that the circuit MUST be placed BEFORE any preamp, as if you place after a preamp you are shorting its loaded signal, creating a loud POP.

 

Or just buy one of these; https://saturnworkspedals.com/product/kill-switch-pedal/

I was just thinking the same thing...but those switches dint work ie bad timing feel

But

Those air turn reed switches might just be the thing...although i never use >3m cables for passive pickups...:-)

Anyway cheers for the thoughts!

 

Btw, why send to ground...will open circuit suffer hum or??

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On 1/19/2023 at 11:22 AM, markwesse said:

Btw, why send to ground...will open circuit suffer hum or??

 

Yep, just opening the signal circuit would generate ground hum, like when you plug a guitar cable on the amp, without plugging it to the guitar.

 

 

 

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