Ext Amp out can't be made snapshots independent.

[HotRats73]

I've got a question: I'd like to know if the behaviour explained below is by design or are somenthing might change in the future.

 

Preface:

firmware 3.5 introduced a great new feature that I love and made Helix way more powerful than before (along with the snapshot bypass option) as a main rig brain on stage.

 

See below the quote from the release notes.

 

Quote

 

Disable Snapshot Control over Parameter Assignments

Helix Floor, Helix Rack/Control, Helix LT, Helix Native, HX Effects (IRs only), HX Stomp, HX Stomp XL
Prior to 3.50, when assigning a parameter to a physical control (EXP 1, footswitch, etc.) or MIDI, Snapshots are also always assigned. In 3.50, they still are, but there's an additional "Snapshot Control" parameter on the Controller Assign page that lets you bypass this default.
From the Controller Assign menu, select the desired parameter and turn Knob 2 (Controller) to select any value other than "None" or "Snapshots." A second page appears.

 

 

I've discovered that when you assign an ext amp instant command to a footswitch that footswitch is not independent form snapshots (like happened before 3.5 for any fs with an assigned parameter) and there's no Snapshot Control option.

 

This mean that at the moment you can't use a footswitch for controlling your tube amp channel and also use snapshots for other things because, for example, if you switch your amp to ch2 using FS1 and then select a snapshots the helix will revert the FS1 state triggering the tube amp relay putting it back to ch1. 

 

 

 

[joanesinu]

I don't know if I understand you. You can send different ext.amp command PER snapshot. You have to save all commands from EVERY snapshot. So if you have 4 snapshots, you have to go to the snapshot in the editor. Change the ext.amp command behaviour and SAVE. Then change snapshot. Repeat.

 

Different amp channels per snapshot IS POSSIBLE.

Is this your problem? 

If you assign ext.amp command directly to a toggle, lets say FS1. The command state will be as it was saved on that snapshot1. If I save that snapshot1 with FS1 in amp crunch channel, then If I change to snapshot2, change the amp channel to clean, and go back to snapshot1, the toggle state will be as it was STORED. So, crunch mode (This is your problem).

 

You have 2 solutions. Add Snapshot toggles in footswitch mode and save ext.amp command per snapshot with the lightnings. Or change the snapshot changing behaviour from the menu, you have an option for the device to remember the last snapshot state. So it will be as you left it when you leave that snapshot. 

 

For me the best solution is to add snapshot toggles in footswitch mode and add lightning commands for ext.amp switching.

[silverhead]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:23 AM, joanesinu said:

I don't know if I understand you. You can send different ext.amp command PER snapshot. You have to save all commands from EVERY snapshot. So if you have 4 snapshots, you have to go to the snapshot in the editor. Change the ext.amp command behaviour and SAVE. Then change snapshot. Repeat.

 

…

Or you could set the Global Snapshot Edits parameter to Recall. This will allow you to make changes to any parameter in any snapshot and retain the changes while you switch among the various snapshots. You will only need to SAVE the preset once, after all changes are complete.

[HotRats73]

On 10/19/2023 at 2:23 PM, joanesinu said:

I don't know if I understand you. You can send different ext.amp command PER snapshot. You have to save all commands from EVERY snapshot. So if you have 4 snapshots, you have to go to the snapshot in the editor. Change the ext.amp command behaviour and SAVE. Then change snapshot. Repeat.

 

Different amp channels per snapshot IS POSSIBLE.

Is this your problem? 

If you assign ext.amp command directly to a toggle, lets say FS1. The command state will be as it was saved on that snapshot1. If I save that snapshot1 with FS1 in amp crunch channel, then If I change to snapshot2, change the amp channel to clean, and go back to snapshot1, the toggle state will be as it was STORED. So, crunch mode (This is your problem).

 

You have 2 solutions. Add Snapshot toggles in footswitch mode and save ext.amp command per snapshot with the lightnings. Or change the snapshot changing behaviour from the menu, you have an option for the device to remember the last snapshot state. So it will be as you left it when you leave that snapshot. 

 

For me the best solution is to add snapshot toggles in footswitch mode and add lightning commands for ext.amp switching.

 

 

Thanks for your answer but my problem is that I want channel switching via ext amp relay to be independent from snapshots just like you can do with any block or parameter assigned to a single FS using the "snapshot bypass" and "snapshot control" options.

 

Within helix, for example, you can assign a block bypass to FS1, set "snapshot bypass" parameter to off and that FS (and block) won't be affected by any snapshot you are in/recall. 

Is a great feature. Same applies to parameters directly assigned to footswitches. They can be independent from snapshots using the "snapshot control" parameter.

 

I want the same thing when I assign the amp channel command to a FS; I want, let's say, use FS1 to change amp channels and snapshots to do other things that not include channel switching.

 

This is currently impossible. 

 

I'm forced to use snapshot for everything or don't use snapshots at all.

[rd2rk]

On 10/19/2023 at 1:23 AM, HotRats73 said:

I've got a question: I'd like to know if the behaviour explained below is by design or are somenthing might change in the future.

 

Preface:

firmware 3.5 introduced a great new feature that I love and made Helix way more powerful than before (along with the snapshot bypass option) as a main rig brain on stage.

 

See below the quote from the release notes.

 

 

I've discovered that when you assign an ext amp instant command to a footswitch that footswitch is not independent form snapshots (like happened before 3.5 for any fs with an assigned parameter) and there's no Snapshot Control option.

 

This mean that at the moment you can't use a footswitch for controlling your tube amp channel and also use snapshots for other things because, for example, if you switch your amp to ch2 using FS1 and then select a snapshots the helix will revert the FS1 state triggering the tube amp relay putting it back to ch1. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand. You seem to be conflating two separate concepts.

 

Instant Commands are always sent on Snapshot Change and AFAIK, always have been.

 

Instant Commands cannot be assigned to footswitches.

 

If you assign the Ext Amp function to a FS it is not affected by Snapshots.

 

UNLESS...

 

If you also assign that FS to a dummy Block (for instance, GAIN = 0db) you can have that function activated by Snapshots (by saving Snapshots with the FS active/inactive as you choose) WITHOUT using Instant Commands, or ON DEMAND by changing the FS status in different Snapshots and have the best of both worlds. See NOTE below!

 

Attached is an example preset. Ext Amp is assigned to FS 11. A dummy GAIN Block is also assigned to FS 11.

Snapshots are SAVED with FS 11 ON (CH A) or OFF CH B.

Snapshots 1-4 are configured as above.

SS 5-8 are NOT configured and default to OFF (CH B).

 

NOTE: This is a situation where you should use EITHER the FS OR Snapshots. Combining the two puts things out of sync, depending on whether "Snapshot Edits" is set to Recall or Discard. For instance, toggling using the FS then changing to a different Snapshot might not behave as expected. Toggle BACK using the FS before changing Snapshots.

 

The preset works with both FS and Snapshots either way, it's just when you try to use both methods (FS/SS) at once that it gets weird.

 

HotRats73.hlx

[HotRats73]

I've not tried your preset because is too late now. 

 

But I'm sorry, when you assign an ext amp to a FS, the on/off state of that FS is snapshot dependent.

Any change of snapshot will recall the state stored in that snapshot. This behavior makes the assignment of the ext amp command to a FS basically useless (unless you need it to work that way).

 

Works exactly how helix worked before fw 3.5 when the use of both direct parameter assignments to footswitches and snapshots was impossible.

 

That's why they added a snapshot control option for all parameters.

 

(And they added the snapshot bypass options because having a blocks that can stay

on or off regardless which snapshot you're in is incredibly useful)

 

I'll add, as a side note, that using a FS for simply changing a tube amp channel makes little sense, you can bring the actual amp pedal and free a footswitch on your helix. 

All that said, is nonetheless cool having all the switching on your helix floor with all the color coding and scribble strips.

 

anyway, what makes really sense is integrate the amp channel switching capabilities with other stuff inside the helix, like turning on/off things,  adding a compressor when you select a clean channel, or selecting different routes in the signal path or modify your reverb mix and length, etc. 

 

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:49 PM, HotRats73 said:

But I'm sorry, when you assign an ext amp to a FS, the on/off state of that FS is snapshot dependent.

 

I messed around with this some more and I see what you mean.

Apparently, the Snapshot default for Ext Amp is whatever state the circuit is in when the assigned FS is DIM.

I tried to establish if that is OPEN or CLOSED, but the battery in my multimeter is dead! AARGH!

Anyhow, I must have done my first tests with the switch in the DIM position on SS1, so nothing changed when I switched Snapshots.

 

It's been that kind of day in my digital wonderland - nothing has worked the way it did yesterday. I spent all day running down problems and didn't play a note!

Our favorite toy, the PC212+? Decided to stop accepting MIDI over the DIN jacks. Worked fine over USB. Drove me crazy until I finally did a factory reset which fixed it.

 

Days like this make me long for the smell of hot tubes on a cold day...

 

[joanesinu]

On 10/19/2023 at 11:49 PM, HotRats73 said:

I've not tried your preset because is too late now. 

 

But I'm sorry, when you assign an ext amp to a FS, the on/off state of that FS is snapshot dependent.

Any change of snapshot will recall the state stored in that snapshot. This behavior makes the assignment of the ext amp command to a FS basically useless (unless you need it to work that way).

 

Works exactly how helix worked before fw 3.5 when the use of both direct parameter assignments to footswitches and snapshots was impossible.

 

That's why they added a snapshot control option for all parameters.

 

(And they added the snapshot bypass options because having a blocks that can stay

on or off regardless which snapshot you're in is incredibly useful)

 

I'll add, as a side note, that using a FS for simply changing a tube amp channel makes little sense, you can bring the actual amp pedal and free a footswitch on your helix. 

All that said, is nonetheless cool having all the switching on your helix floor with all the color coding and scribble strips.

 

anyway, what makes really sense is integrate the amp channel switching capabilities with other stuff inside the helix, like turning on/off things,  adding a compressor when you select a clean channel, or selecting different routes in the signal path or modify your reverb mix and length, etc. 

 

 

 

 

I understand you now. You want the FS1 (Ext. amp) to be independent to snapshots. I don't know if this is possible. Did you find any solution?

[joanesinu]

Hello,

 

I think I just found a solution I didn't know it existed, in the manual. Page 31. You can set a block independent to snapshots, what is exactly what you want.

 

You can enter into this menu pushing 'Action' button on the HX FX while the block you want to edit is selected.

 

This feature is a really game changer, really interesting to find this out.

 

 

Press Snapshot Bypass to toggle On/Off state for this block.
SNAPSHOT
BYPASS:ON
By default, all blocks are set to “On” to automatically control their bypass state
via snapshots. Change to “Off” to disable snapshot control of the selected block’s
bypass state.
NOTE: The arrow at the right of this scribble strip indicates that there are more
Action options on the next “page.” (You may alternatively see this indicator
by itself on a scribble strip, depending on the type of block or menu selected.)
Press the button to advance to the next page for other features.