Help replicating Randy Rhoads rig…

[Cygnus__X1]

New to Helix and am trying to create a preset or presets/snapshots to play through Diary of a Madman. RR used mostly MXR pedals and I don’t know what the Helix equivalent would be or if it really matters too much. One thing I hear is that in some sections of the song the last chord or note would have to continue sounding uninterrupted into the next section. Trails ON maybe? I have made some progress but I have a LONG way to go. Thanks for any help or advice.

[DunedinDragon]

Well start with a Les Paul Custom or you won't have the same basis for the sound.  Beyond that there are plenty of various pedals that would do the kind of things he did.  Compression tends to be the best friend for long sustains given enough drive on the amp model.

[Schmalle]

If you have a healthy guitar the Placater Dirty can get you the amp sound without pedals. Keep the master down to keep things crisp and open. I personally found bias at 5.3 to sound best to my ears.

 

The important thing is the right cab / mic combination to match the recording. I have some favs but I don't wanna spoil your fun.

 

Put a looper first in the chain, play and record a riff and then try to match to the album sound.

Don't forget to match the room/ambience for the right feel, too.

[Cygnus__X1]

Yeah, I'm playing on a strat so... 

[brue58ski]

You won't get Randy perfectly with a Strat. But you can maybe get close. You'll have to at least boost the Strat signal to drive everything harder like just a gain block or even a compressor of some kind. Start with a volume pedal (not necessary for the sound but he used one.) Then go with a Cry Baby Wah. The Helix has one of those. He used an MXR Distortion +. Helix doesn't have one (I've never understood that. It was fairly iconic in it's day wasn't it? Line 6 has never modeled it.) The KWB is a distortion unit that is kinda sorta based on the Distortion +. He used an MXR 10-band EQ which the Helix has. Unsure of the settings. He used an MXR chorus which the Helix does not have. I have no knowledge of what chorus the Helix has that is close. But, it's a chorus so just try them all. Randy used to, at the very least, double track his guitar's. From what I remember, he even double tracked his solo's. Amazing. So I suspect the chorus was for his live setup to simulate the studio double tracking using two Marshall amps and going stereo with the chorus to the amps. According to the graphic I provided, the chorus went mono into a stereo flanger first and then went stereo from there. Not sure how accurate that is. You'll have to experiment. With having both the chorus and flanger, don't forget to play with the mix parameter's in each of them. He also used a Roland Space Echo which the Helix has. For his studio sound, try the Helix Double Take instead of or even with the chorus but put it after a single Marshall amp. It's in the stereo modulation section. It's going to be hard getting around not having a humbucker. Line 6 has a "Tone Template" area and you can go to Randy Rhodes for their suggestions on what to use. Unfortunately, it doesn't many of the effects it displays and little info about what Line 6 effects to use. Like it says to use an MXR Distortion + but the graphic it shows is an Tube Screamer, not the KWB like I suggested. I'm sorry I don't have any real Helix specifics. Just a lot of suggestions of stuff to try. One thing you may try. I always thought his sound was more of the distortion pedal than the amp, so try riding the amp gain low. One extra thing. I've noticed several places claiming that Randy used Altec 417-8H speakers in his cabs. I see no cab in the Helix that has those I don't know what, if anything comes close.and if there's one thing I know, speakers are a major part of an amp's sound. That could be a reason why I've never been able to nail his sound. Perhaps there's an IR out there of that. Here's a comment about the speaker

 

Speakers
Altec 417-8H
These speakers are incredibly bright with an upper midrange bite that can
knock your head off. Randy Rhoads used these in his Marshall stacks with
incredible results. His pinch harmonics and percussive rhythms matched
perfectly with this speaker. A regular Celestion speaker just doesn't have the
high-end information that these Altecs can easily produce. They have a similar
extended top-end like the old JBL D-120 speakers, so they sound incredible for
clean sounds. In general, you’ll probably have to pull back the Treble (or Presence)
settings you're used to when using them. I use these speakers in a custom 2x12
half-open back cabinet.

 

I also found this about the Altec's

 

Yes, Altecs 417-8H. Randy used them dating back to Quiet Riot. They are Alnico V magnets. At one time I had 2 full stacks loaded with them. Over the years I sold sold 12 and kept just 4 which I still use today. Mesa had an option with that speaker on the Mark 1 combo. They are EXTREMELY bright as their frequency response is 60hz to 8000hz. Add n MXR Distortion plus which was also a little bright and thats Randys sound.

 

I also found a PDF with the speakers specs that I've attached. I do all of this becuase it's become pretty clear his speakers had a lot to do with his sound, which makes sense.

 

I did some research (that was kind of fun) and found some other things that might be helpful. It's been awhile since I've tried to get Randy's tone. I had never seen the first two articles before. I may have to try and tackle it again. The sound is so raw, it sounds like it would be easy but it's like trying to get that AC/DC sound. It's harder than it sounds. I've never gotten to where I've been totally happy with where I got either of these. Close, but never totally there. Hope this all helps in some way.

 

https://line6.com/tone-templates/

 

Here's an article about how to get Randy's sound. Unfortunately he says you need a humbucker. But still some amp settings and good tips.

 

https://killerrig.com/randy-rhoads-amp-settings-and-gear/

 

Here's another one with some 10-band EQ settings.

 

https://musicstrive.com/randy-rhoads-amp-settings/

 

And here's a graphic of one person's take on his stage signal chain. Not sure how accurate it is.

 

 

 

417-8H_lfspkr_spec_sheet.pdf

[Cygnus__X1]

Thanks a million Brue58Ski for all of the info. This should help a lot. I have been playing for over 40 years but I was never really a gearhead at all. I just found an amp that I thought sounded ok at the time and played it so this kind of info is what I need. Thanks again man!

[brue58ski]

Your welcome. I started to get into this hence all of the info. My own curiosity got the best of me. I am going to try to get Randy's sound again when I have time although I've come to the conclusion that the Altec speakers are fairly critical. I do not have an IR for that speaker.

[Cygnus__X1]

That spec sheet is interesting. I suppose it could be used to, or as a starting point, to model that specific “cab”. That would require someone much smarter than I :-).

[AParedes]

that graphic is from the old "Guitar Geek" Website that was a great resource for guitar gear for a number of years (I believe the gentleman's name was Adam Cooper). These diagrams were featured in the US Guitar World magazine, I believe this info was taken from a Wolf Marshall interview with someone in the Ozzy camp from the time Randy was with them.

 

You can also check the following link for the RR Tone Template, which shows the icons you'll want to look for in your Line 6 device: https://line6.com/tone-templates-diagrams/randy-rhoads--diary-of-a-madman-tour.html

 

a couple notes:

A: the KWB distortion was a take on the MXR dist.+ according to Ben Adrian (KWB creator and Line 6 sound designer). 

 

B: Rhoads has his Marshalls modified so the channels were jumped internally, if you check pics of his rig you won't always see the classic "jumper cable" like you see with other players.  this topic is discussed in the excellent "The History of Marshall: first 50 years" book by Nick Bowcott and Michael Doyle.