Sorry, but another "can't update to 3.70" tale of woe SOLVED (Doh!)

[Joeleft]

Hi All

 

 

I have searched this forum but haven't found anything that looks like this issue.

 

Long time owner of Helix (Floor and Native) and HD500X and have carried out quite a few updates to the firmware (and many non Line 6 products) over the years, with few if any issues.

 

I have been trying to update my Helix Floor from 3.60.0 to the latest 3.70 firmware. Everything went according to plan until I got to the last hurdle where the process just seemed to hang.

 

I updated Helix Edit with no problem.

 

I had agreed to the end user license for 3.70, which produced the following on my computer screen:

"Helix Edit will now update your device firmware to the latest version. This process may take a few minutes"

 

I clicked on the "Update" button and got the following:

 

Computer screen - had "Initializing firmware installation" with a spinning cursor (see screenshot)

Helix screen - was blank except for a small font message in the top left saying "Update message server Started"

 

Nearly 3 hours later, nothing has changed from these messages.

 

I guess that the process has stalled.

 

The only thing that has changed on my PC is that I have very recently started a new contract with Kasperski using their Premium protection suite. I have been a long time Kasperski user with no issues, but maybe this new version is causing a blocking of something ??

Haven't seen any messages etc from Kasperski though.

 

So, two questions please:

 

1. Does anyone know where I have gone wrong and could suggest a possible fix ?

 

2. I would try the process again but with Kaspersky disabled.

How would I get back to a situation where I can get the Helix back to the state it was in before I started the update ?

I guess it might be around resetting to factory update using the 9 & 10 buttons, but I'm not sure if I can just turn off the Helix in this seemingly stalled state.

 

Currently, the Helix strips all show the name of the presets that it was set to when I turned it on to start the update and the tap tempo button is flashing as it would.

 

When I sort this have Native to update !!

 

 

Computer:

Windows 10

i7 chip

Lots of RAM

Using USB socket at back of PC - ie direct into the PC, no hubs or the like.

No other issues experienced with other programmes, including updating some files on Native Instruments stuff.

 

 

Thank you in advance if you can help.

 

 

 

[Joeleft]

UPDATE:

 

I have checked the settings in the Kasperski suite and in Security/Intrusion Prevention/Manage Applications, Helix hardware editor version 3.70 is actually listed as trusted and allowed, so maybe the Kasperski protection software isn't the issue ??

[ricstudioc]

Personally, for the last several updates I've used the Line6 Updater, never have problems that way.  If you go to downloads and enter Helix, then Firmware, then Windows 10 (I guess - don't know if that matters) it should take you to a screen where you can download the installer.  Runs around 42 meg, very compact.  Then run Updater and choose to update from local file.  Works for me.

 

Native has never seemed to have problems.  Good luck.

[Joeleft]

Hi Ricstudioc

 

Thanks for your advice.

I have the up to date Line6 updater (Ver 1.28 as it is today).

 

If I try to update using this, when I load it, there is no device to update (I guess that's because the Helix is still in kind of update mode), so can't get any further.

 

At present, the Helix is still turned on and showing the "Update message server Started" message, and HX Edit is still unmoved from where it was at the start of this issue nearly 4 hours ago now. 

 

Still not sure how to close it all and start again from a factory set up. don't want to "brick" it of course. Not sure what will happen if I just turn the Helix off whilst in this situation. 

[datacommando]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:00 PM, Joeleft said:

Hi Ricstudioc

 

Thanks for your advice.

I have the up to date Line6 updater (Ver 1.28 as it is today).

 

If I try to update using this, when I load it, there is no device to update (I guess that's because the Helix is still in kind of update mode), so can't get any further.

 

At present, the Helix is still turned on and showing the "Update message server Started" message, and HX Edit is still unmoved from where it was at the start of this issue nearly 4 hours ago now. 

 

Still not sure how to close it all and start again from a factory set up. don't want to "brick" it of course. Not sure what will happen if I just turn the Helix off whilst in this situation. 

Hi,

 

A couple of points here. The Line 6 Updater cannot connect to your hardware if HX Edit is still running - ensure it is not running in the background. Also you will need to disconnect the USB Cable from both your hardware and PC. Restart your Helix while holding down FS6 & FS12 to put your unit into Safe Boot Mode. Reconnect the USB to the Helix and PC. Ensure HX Edit is not open and launch the Line 6 Updater Utility and choose to work offline. Your device should now appear to be available for updating via the Utility.

 

Here is the Line 6 official recovery instructions.

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

[Joeleft]

FURTHER UPDATE:

 

4 hours after starting this update with no success, and with HX Edit still showing a spinning cursor and the Helix Floor still showing a blank screen apart from the small message top left of the screen "Update message server Started", I decided to turn off HX Edit and then turn off the Helix (fingers crossed).

 

As HX Edit wouldn't turn off by using either "close" or clicking the shutdown cross symbol (because a window opened that said "Devices currently updating...wait until update completed etc..etc") I used Task Manager to turn off HX Edit.

This successfully turned off HX Edit.

 

Then I switched off the Helix, waited a minute and then turned it back on. PHEW, the Helix booted up and the preset buttons all worked.

 

Looks like I am back at the position I was before trying to update to 3.70, ie I have a Helix running 3.60.0.

 

so....how do I update to 3.70 successfully ??

[Joeleft]

Hi datacommando

 

Many thanks for your help. Very much appreciated.

 

I'll try this in the morning after a nights sleep (I'm in the UK) and my head stops spinning  :-)

[ricstudioc]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:44 PM, Joeleft said:

I'll try this in the morning after a nights sleep (I'm in the UK)

An excellent idea.  Hopefully you see this after a nights sleep.  Do check back, let us know how it's going.

[datacommando]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:44 PM, Joeleft said:

Hi datacommando

 

Many thanks for your help. Very much appreciated.

 

I'll try this in the morning after a nights sleep (I'm in the UK) and my head stops spinning  :-)

Hi,

 

I’m also un the U.K. (West Yorkshire) and like you I powered down and recharged my iPad overnight.

 

From what you stated earlier you should be good to go, any other issues with this, post back and we can try to figure it out.

 

It is exceptionally rare that a firmware update will turn your Helix into a paperweight, it’s a computer. I have been updating my Helix since FW 1.06.5 way back in 2016 - never had any real issues - I must live on a ley line.

 

Let us know how it goes.

EDIT:

This is the solution provided by members of this forum. Follow this link, read it thoroughly, and follow the instructions given.
 

Take Note: this installation technique described within was for an earlier version of the Firmware. Any references to version numbers should be the very latest available for the new 3.70 Firmware. The method for “Offline” updating is identical.

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by datacommando
Added link

[Joeleft]

Hi ricstudioc and datacommando

 

Did as suggested above but still no joy.

 

I loaded the file from L6 and carried out th procedure.

 

 

The screenshot is when I had clicked to update, so all looked good at that point. However, I had to go out after about 45 minutes of clicking to update, and because the marker showing the progress had not even started I left it all to run. When I checked back after about 5 hours, nothing had changed. The Helix was set as I had left it with a bank of updates showing and the tap tempo flashing (as would be in normal use). I noticed that the page on the PC screen (as the screenshot) showed the "Firmware Version 3.60" but assumed that it showed the current firmware and was updating to 3.70.

 

 

I'm pretty baffled.

 

I closed the updater that was supposedly running and turned off the Helix.

 

I will delete all the files for this on my PC, reload them from L6, update L6 Updater and try again.

I'll report back in case any of this helps anyone.

 

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joeleft]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:23 PM, Joeleft said:

I will delete all the files for this on my PC, reload them from L6, update L6 Updater and try again.

I'll report back in case any of this helps anyone.

 

UPDATE:

 

Yep, did all this. plus tried a different USB socket on the PC.

No change in result.

 

 

[ricstudioc]

On 12/20/2023 at 8:50 AM, Joeleft said:

 

UPDATE:

 

Yep, did all this. plus tried a different USB socket on the PC.

No change in result.

 

 

Hmmm.  Sorry Joe, I'm about out of ideas here.  To be clear, you downloaded Helix_Floor_v3.70.0_0xd2be32d64.hxf?  (Assuming yes).  Other than that I'm coming up short.  DataCommando - thoughts?

 

At least you're up and running on 3.6, yes?  Nothing wrong with that, hold tight until this gets figured out.

[datacommando]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:50 PM, Joeleft said:

 

UPDATE:

 

Yep, did all this. plus tried a different USB socket on the PC.

No change in result.

 

 

You’re baffled?
 

Well, so am I, and it looks like @ricstudioc is too.

 

This is another one for the “weird and mysterious” files.

 

The “Helix/HX Update Doesn’t Work? Look Here!” was compiled as a “fail safe/get out of jail free” solution to situations like this and IIRC has been successful in completing the update routine for the majority of people who have followed the instructions, to the letter.

 

Unless you have some hardware issue causing the update to fail, then at this point I really am out of suggestions, other than to raise a ticket with Customer Support, but I wouldn’t anticipate any quick results considering the time of year. Note: AFAIK their solution is exactly the same as one offered in the Look Here routine. 

If you are still running v3.60 without problems, you may have to stick with this until Support can give you a fix.

 

Sorry.

[datacommando]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:50 PM, Joeleft said:

UPDATE:

 

Yep, did all this. plus tried a different USB socket on the PC.

No change in result.

 

Just for the hell of it - here's a video of a guy going through the routine of updating the Firmware using Line 6 Updater - His example is with v3.50 firmware, but the technique is the same for any version.

 

Hope this helps to clarify how to use Line 6 Updater for failed installations.

 

 

[Joeleft]

Hi datacommando and rickstudioc

 

SORTED !!

 

I have a laptop which hasn't even been turned on for about a year, and so does not have the latest Kasperski protection software on it (nor any windows or other updates).

 

Used this laptop and tried again to update my Helix using the method explained in the 3.70 update Release Notes.

Hope it hasn't been bombarded with viruses whilst it was on!!

 

It worked with no problem. Helix updated.

 

So.....it looks like there's either a hardware issue with the Desktop, or the latest Kasperski software is stopping it - my bet is the latter - even though I actually paused it and went through the whole update process again ( ie Kasperski turned off).

 

Thank you both very much for your help. Much appreciated.

 

BTW, do you know if there are any differently named pre sets in 3.70 (FACTORY 1) than there were in 3.60 ?

Believe it or not, I hardly use the Helix (I know!) and I had no presets that I had made on it to save.

So....I thought that I would restore the 3.60 presets onto my now 3.70 Helix to review later - as detailed in steps 4 and 5 on the release notes.

I followed the notes, but I thought there was a little ambiguity in the way it was worded.

Anyway, in HX Edit with the Helix connected to the laptop, I had USER 1 selected and then clicked File/Restore from Backup, selecting FACTORY 1 from the Back Up files.

When it had finished, USER 1 had no presets in it, so I was worried that I had overwritten 3.70 FACTORY 1 with my back up file taken from 3.60.

 

I turned off the Helix and back on again and on the screen, it went through the "rebuilding presets" thing again but in less time than when I finally got the update originally done.

So, I think it has rebuilt the 3.70 FACTORY 1 presets.

If there are any different preset names in 3.70 in FACTORY 1, I can check.

 

I did think I could maybe just go through the whole process of installing 3.70 again which would make sure, but HX Edit won't allow it (presumably because it can tell the 3.70 update has been carried out).

 

Sorry about the length of this, and for taking your time when it looks like my desktop was the issue.

I would add SOLVED to the title if I knew how!

 

BTW datacommando, we're not that far apart geographically speaking. 

 

Thanks again chaps

 

[ricstudioc]

Congratulations!  And Merry Christmas, eh?

 

On 12/21/2023 at 10:20 AM, Joeleft said:

Believe it or not, I hardly use the Helix

Oh I believe it - I've been sorta retired from playing (at least playing well, neurological problems) for a while and have barely scratched into Helix for a bit.  I'd bet Data can weigh in on the setlist thing.

 

And you're quite welcome - I've found the Helix community to be extraordinarily helpful.  Glad you got it sorted.

[datacommando]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:20 PM, Joeleft said:

It worked with no problem. Helix updated.

 

Yay! Success!

 

When the regular solutions don’t seem to work, you have to ask yourself, “what else has changed”. It appears you had the solution in your first post - “I have been a long time Kasperski user with no issues, but maybe this new version is causing a blocking of something”. Some security software goes above and beyond what it is expected to provide. You’re not the first to have fallen foul of some over zealous protection application.

 

As for the Factory presets - well, according to Digital_Igloo (Chief Product Design Architect · Yamaha Guitar Group, Inc. / Line 6 / Ampeg) - All Presets Suck!. Anyhow, when you perform a factory reset on your device it will erase all the content of your Helix and put it back to “box fresh”condition i.e. the first two Setlists are populated with factory preset and all others are blank. If you made a backup (as you are advised to do before updating) then various aspects of the backup can be restored back to the hardware in the same position they previously occupied. There are other methods to selectively extract presets to place in different slots - I suggest that you read the HX Edit Pilot’s Guide pdf that you can access from Inside the GUI by clicking on the Question Mark icon in the lower left of the window.

 

Please note: After updating to a new firmware you will see the “Rebuilding Presets” operation taking place on your hardware every time you load any, or all, presets that were created in an earlier version of the firmware. This is to be expected as the operating system inside the hardware modifies those presets to make them compatible with the current version of the firmware.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

[Joeleft]

Thanks again chaps for your input.

 

Now when I've got time........updating Native !!