Helix Native Does Not Sound Good

[noah2453980]

Hi there,

 

I have been using Helix (HN) Native for a long time now — maybe around 6 to 12 months. I unfortunately am never able to get anything to sound good.

 

I have just noticed I’m getting two different output levels and I think this may be an issue as to why. I’ve watched numerous YouTube videos, and nothing I get sounds remotely like it (I understand different pickups, shapes, etc. all play a part...)

 

When I hard-strum a chord, I see the meter on HN go up to about -16 dB, but my track meter goes up to -9 dB. I have ensured all levels are set correctly and still I’m having no luck. Input and Main are set to 0 dB within HN, and my track level is set to 0 dB. No input gate it enabled (Host Input block) and no levels adjustments or panning is set (Host Output block). There are no other inserts before or after this plugin. 

 

Any help?

 

My setup:

• macOS 14.4.1 (23E224) (latest)
• MainStage 3.6.6 (Build Version 4952.8) (latest)
• Helix Native 3.71 (HelixCore 3.70.139c) (latest)

[codamedia]

On 4/2/2024 at 5:59 AM, noah2453980 said:

I see the meter on HN go up to about -16 dB, but my track meter goes up to -9 dB. 

 

Which Helix Native meter are you referring to... there are two which help in getting the gain staging accurate within the plugin. 

 

On 4/2/2024 at 5:59 AM, noah2453980 said:

Input and Main are set to 0 dB within HN

 

Adjust the level controls as needed to get the right values on the meters, don't just set them to 0 and hope for the best. 

I like to set my input level on Native around -18/-20... hard hits would push it to about -12. Set like this I find Native reacts similar to my LT with the same preset. Next, gain stage the plugin as you add/remove blocks) until the output meter is very similar. 

 

I'm not familiar with Main Stage so I don't know what your meter options are... but I can say that "Dbfs" will be very different from any "K metering" when referring to numbers only. I honestly don't care about getting a match in numbers here... I just make sure I'm not peaking anything. 

 

You are not mentioning what you use for an interface. If you have the option, set the input you use to "Instrument" or "High Impedance". That will load down your pickup in a more familiar way than LINE or a Mic Pre will.

[datacommando]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:59 AM, noah2453980 said:

I unfortunately am never able to get anything to sound good.

 

Hi,

 

This has been an ongoing issue for quite sometime now, but it recently came back to the top of the list of problems with "amp sims", that will also include Helix Native.

 

To save me from lots of typing, you may want to get some insight from a few videos on YouTube.

 

Here ya go:-

 

 

This is what started the ball rolling.

 

Even more info.

 

Even more info.

 

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[noah2453980]

Thank you @codamedia & @datacommando

 

On 4/2/2024 at 10:55 PM, codamedia said:

Which Helix Native meter are you referring to... there are two which help in getting the gain staging accurate within the plugin. 

 

Sorry, I should have been more specific: I was referring to the Main (output) meter within HN

 

On 4/2/2024 at 10:55 PM, codamedia said:

Adjust the level controls as needed to get the right values on the meters, don't just set them to 0 and hope for the best. 

 

For the sake of wanting to make sure “everything” was correct (and trying to eliminate issues), I set everything to default or 0 to determine where I was having issues. As @datacommando actually linked it, my Input in HN is set to +1.5 due to the hardware I am using (Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2nd Gen, which is set at 0 and Instrument input as per the manual and video).

 

On 4/2/2024 at 10:55 PM, codamedia said:

I'm not familiar with Main Stage

 

MainStage is the “performance” equivalent of Logic Pro (still made by Apple). Maybe my amp settings and blocks just aren’t being set up too good in Helix Native as when I use Logic Pro/MainStage’s amp sim, I’m easy able to get great sounds with minimal efforts. There also seems to be a lot less dynamics when going through Helix Native; another reason for my post. There’s almost no difference in sound and amp despite how hard or soft I’m playing. This is not the case with Logic’s Amp Sim.

 

Thank you both for your help and time to comment.

[DunedinDragon]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:34 PM, noah2453980 said:

 

MainStage is the “performance” equivalent of Logic Pro (still made by Apple). Maybe my amp settings and blocks just aren’t being set up too good in Helix Native as when I use Logic Pro/MainStage’s amp sim, I’m easy able to get great sounds with minimal efforts. There also seems to be a lot less dynamics when going through Helix Native; another reason for my post. There’s almost no difference in sound and amp despite how hard or soft I’m playing. This is not the case with Logic’s Amp Sim.

 

I can't speak to Logic Pro/MainStage amp sim as I don't use those products, but in the case of Helix, it's designed such that every component, amp or effect, is modeled after the real world behaviors of that actual device and how that device will influence the sound based on how it's used within a given signal chain.  If, for example, you're not getting a lot of range in you dynamic response, that can be due to a number of factors such as how much you're overdriving the signal as distortion by definition reduces the dynamic response of the amp.  But it could also be related to where you place the compressor in the signal chain (pre amp or post amp), and which compressor is used because they're all designed to behave differently.  All of this is designed to allow you the maximum flexibility in defining the particular sound and behaviors you want for a given preset.  It's likely the Mainstage amp sim is designed for a more simple and common usage without the flexibility and makes it easier to apply but not as versatile.