Helix w/power amp

[rwinking]

I have used my main helix rack for years just for FX and have been hesitant to use the models in a live situation.. Recently I did some gigs with my stompXL and a powercab. It is nice and I can see myself using it more as I dial it in for live use. I just remembered an old Rocktron Velocity 150 power amp from my old Digitech GSP 1101 days and wanted to try it out with a Helix. My question is about setting the various volumes. Do I run the power amp full on and the Helix full on and then dial it back with the amp models? Or is it best to pull the power amp back and dime the Helix? Or power amp back, Helix back and models run with the master dimed?

I’s kind of cool as I hooked it up stereo to an old Carvin VAI Legacy 2X12 stereo speaker cab. Massive sounds and all but just want to make sure that I am utilizing it in the most efficient way. 

Thanks in advance!

rick

[DunedinDragon]

I think the first thing you need to address is separating what affects your tone and what affects your volume.  From my perspective I concentrate on adjusting the Helix to get the proper tone I want at the most efficient output level.  That means my Helix master volume is always dimed to achieve the most efficient output level and the adjustments within the presets are adjusted to maintain the desired tone at a consistent signal level that will be desirable on whatever comes after the Helix.  I do that mostly through adjustments on the amp model which includes the amp model's master volume because it does affect the tone whereas the amp's channel volume does not.  However I find it much more efficient to adjust the output level of the signal chain to achieve a signal level near unity level as seen from a mixing board with my Helix output set to Mic level (going into the mixing board).  Because I do that on all my Helix presets I know there will be no significant change in volume between presets as they pass on to the mixing board which means less work having to gain stage each preset.

 

You could follow that basic approach in your situation simply adjusting your Helix output from being Mic level to Line level which I would assume is what your rig expects as input.  That would allow you to adjust your rig's volume settings independently depending on what's needed at any gig so that volume level will be consistent across all presets.

[PaulTBaker]

Agreed, adjust your presets so the presets are all close to the same output level from the helix.  Would suggest using something like Youlean Loudness Meter - Free VST, AU and AAX plugin.  I have mine set so it averages -18 to -15 db for each preset.  then no matter what the big knob is set too, the output of each preset will be relative.  

 

When I play with the band and use my PC, I have it connected to the helix using the l6 connection.  I then have the big knob at digital.  The FOH gets the signal from the xlr's.  This way the FOH is getting the signal as if the big know was always maxed.  This lets me use the big knob to control the onstage volume for the PC.

 

When I play as a duo, we use the Bose L1 (i think)and I do not use the PC.  I have my big knob set to multi, so the big knob WILL effect what is being sent to the FOH (which is the bose behind me in this case).  This lets me give myself a boost if needed without changing the mixer.

[rwinking]

Thanks everybody. TheYoulean Loudness meter plugin would only work with Helix native, right?

Still a little confused about power amps. So, back in the day, the old Fenders and Marshalls had no gain knob or master volume. That would imply that the power section was always maxed, right?

Most Helix models have a drive knob, a channel volume knob and a master knob, although a couple don't have a master volume. So does the master volume of the amp model have any effect on the tone? Or are you saying that the channel volume affects the tone but not the master volume of the model?

I have an Egnater MTS amp that uses the synergy tube preamps. I am trying to compare the helix to that and maybe that is unfair. Each preamp has a drive and a Master and then the amp itself has a master volume. Would that be similar to the Helix models? It is weird that there is a channel volume and then a master and then the Helix itself has a master and then the power amp also has a volume. I am just struggling to get my head around all of these volumes so please be patient with my questions....

rick

[waymda]

Thanks everybody. TheYoulean Loudness meter plugin would only work with Helix native, right?

No - the assumption is you are routing hardware outputs to a DAW or stand alone version of YouLean. If you have a Helix you can do this direct via USB or through a audio interface. Whilst you can use Native and share presets between Native and hardware there are lopts of gotcha's with input levels, impedance, etc

Still a little confused about power amps. So, back in the day, the old Fenders and Marshalls had no gain knob or master volume. That would imply that the power section was always maxed, right?

Yes

Most Helix models have a drive knob, a channel volume knob and a master knob, although a couple don't have a master volume. So does the master volume of the amp model have any effect on the tone?

Yes - it simulates the impact on power sections as opposed to pre-amps. Some amps are great flat out, some distinctly not (IMHO).

Or are you saying that the channel volume affects the tone but not the master volume of the model?

No - the Channel volume only changes the output levels. You will perceive tones differently as they are louder/softer but that's a percepton issue and won't translate across playback devices.

I have an Egnater MTS amp that uses the synergy tube preamps. I am trying to compare the helix to that and maybe that is unfair. Each preamp has a drive and a Master and then the amp itself has a master volume. Would that be similar to the Helix models? It is weird that there is a channel volume and then a master and then the Helix itself has a master and then the power amp also has a volume. I am just struggling to get my head around all of these volumes so please be patient with my questions....

Each Helix amp has a models a single pre-amp (unless jumped versions) and poweramp combination. The drive affects the pre-amp, the master the output section and the channel parameter the overall volume. Think of channel as the leveling tool you wished you always had on and amp.

 

In the context of useing external power amps with the Helix, the external power amp should be as transparent as possible and only add volume (unless you deliberately want a specific colouration of tone)

rick

[rwinking]

Thanks everybody. TheYoulean Loudness meter plugin would only work with Helix native, right?

Still a little confused about power amps. So, back in the day, the old Fenders and Marshalls had no gain knob or master volume. That would imply that the power section was always maxed, right?

Most Helix models have a drive knob, a channel volume knob and a master knob, although a couple don't have a master volume. So does the master volume of the amp model have any effect on the tone? Or are you saying that the channel volume affects the tone but not the master volume of the model?

I have an Egnater MTS amp that uses the synergy tube preamps. I am trying to compare the helix to that and maybe that is unfair. Each preamp has a drive and a Master and then the amp itself has a master volume. Would that be similar to the Helix models? It is weird that there is a channel volume and then a master and then the Helix itself has a master and then the power amp also has a volume. I am just struggling to get my head around all of these volumes so please be patient with my questions....

rick

[rwinking]

I guess what I am saying is the plugin is not relevant to live playing. I don't have any trouble with getting great tones in the studio. I use my Helix and the Quad Cortex and both are great for that.

I just started trying to play with the Helix and QC live and it is an entirely different animal. I am using models now for all of my acoustic gigs along with the Powercab. I did some electric gigs with the Powercab and QC, or Helix and  it is a weird thing to dial in as using my Synergy/Egnater stuff is more of a plug and play deal. Thanks for all of the explanation on using poweramps. I am not settled on that yet. The Rocktron Velocity does add a little color but it is a tube-ish color. When the modeling stuff first started getting good I had this great Carvin tube poweramp but it was so heavy. It sounded great and warmed up the early models but now that the models have developed their own kind of warmth I am still experiementing.

Thanks again for all of the info!

rick