Helix Floor "Guitar Input" too trebley?

[psklpt]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been building presets lately on Helix Native, with my UAD Apollo Twin X, getting a really good sound.
I then have put those same presets into my Helix Floor to record them latency-free with the band, but the sound is a bit more trebley/Ice-picky.... also the bass is thinner, less buttery...
As it is the same "software" on both the Floor and Native, the only difference in sound comes from the difference between the Apollo DI input (when I use Native) and the "Guitar" in of the Floor unit when using the Floor.

 

I have been  experimenting a lot these days and the only trick I have found to have a similar sound to Native with the Floor is using the "Return 1" as a guitar input ! Then you have a sound as smooth as with the Apollo/Native !  

While this is a fine workaround, I can't use the Auto Impedance feature with fuzz boxes, etc.... :/

With the regular "Guitar In" it really sounds as if you had put a buffer in front of a tube amp, which thins out the bottom end and give more ice picky treble... whereas plugging the guitar in the "Return 1" (or into the Apollo with Native) sounds as if plugging a guitar directly into a tube amp : softer treble, fatter bass. 

It's kind of frustrating when you have spent countless hours perfecting presets and then they don't sound as smooth :/

Could anyone from Line 6 jump in and explain why the "Guitar In" acts like that and if there is any mod possible to make it sound like the "Return 1" input?

 

Thanks, and I hope this helps people who have had the same issue : plug your guitar into the "Return 1" input ! (*at "Instrument" level in the Preferences !)

 

[rd2rk]

Input Impedance and pickup loading. The three inputs all load the pickups differently.

It's a complicated subject, Google it.

 

Simplest solution:

Instead of using the Apollo, use the Helix as AI and plug into the Helix guitar input like you would in a real-world performance.

Create presets on Helix. With impedance set to AUTO your pickups will be properly loaded for the effects in the chain.

When recording use Helix, record an effected performance track and record a DI track with USB 7/8.

Use Native for re-amping.

 

Helix/Native is a SYSTEM and works best when treated accordingly.

[psklpt]

Thanks rd2rk for your input. The thing is I have a studio and all my setup evolves around an Apollo X8 and Apollo Twin, So while recording a band I can't use the Helix as an Audio interface. I will try to make an Aggregate device for my Pro Tools use but apparently latencies of both Apollo and Helix will add up :/  (can anyone confirm?)

 

 

[datacommando]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:28 PM, psklpt said:

Could anyone from Line 6 jump in and explain why the "Guitar In" acts like that and if there is any mod possible to make it sound like the "Return 1" input?

 

Hi,

 

 Firstly, this is a Helix user group, there are no Line 6 staff here and only very occasionally do they visit these forums - (See the “sticky comment” in the black banner stripe at the top of this page entitled “Welcome to the Line 6 forums”).

 

From the Helix v.3.0 Owner's Manual > Page 24 > The Blocks > Input

 

Aux Aux in only. (10kΩ input for an active-pickup equipped guitar or bass.)

Input > Multi and Input > Guitar blocks have an additional Guitar In-Z parameter. Helix has an impedance circuit on its Guitar Input that affects tone and feel by loading your guitar’s pickups as they would by an effect pedal or amplifier. A lower value will typically result in some high frequency attenuation, lower gain, and an overall “softer” feel. A higher value provides full frequency response, higher gain, and an overall “tighter” feel. The “Auto” option allows the impedance to reflect the impedance of the first block on Path 1A—also see the Auto Impedance option in "Global Settings > Preferences" on page 64.

 

Link:

https://line6.com/data/6/0a00050b287e6643b71cda93a/application/pdf/Helix 3.0 Owner's Manual - English .pdf

 

You may want to indulge yourself and purchase a copy of the "Big Book of Helix Tips & Tricks" (available from Sweetwater) by sometime forum contributor Craig Anderton. Check out the section entitled "The Input Impedance Trap" and all should come clear.

 

Link:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AndertonHX-e--sweetwater-publishing-the-big-book-of-helix-tips-and-tricks

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 5/23/2024 at 9:44 AM, psklpt said:

Thanks rd2rk for your input. The thing is I have a studio and all my setup evolves around an Apollo X8 and Apollo Twin, So while recording a band I can't use the Helix as an Audio interface. I will try to make an Aggregate device for my Pro Tools use but apparently latencies of both Apollo and Helix will add up :/  (can anyone confirm?)

 

 

 

No need to use an aggregate device. Continue to use your UA rig as AI.

Set up your Helix Presets with a SEND first in the chain. Take that SEND to an input on your X8 for a DI Track.

The X8 and Helix both have SPDIF, so no latency there.

Latency only matters if you're playing AND monitoring your playing thru the computer.

Direct Monitor thru Helix, no latency.

 

Your problem relates to loading the pickups. As long as you're connecting via the Helix guitar input you can work around your issue.

The next problem you'll probably mention is, since you're "recording a band", you may have a shortage of inputs on your UA gear.

Sorry, time to upgrade! 

[codamedia]

On 5/23/2024 at 6:28 AM, psklpt said:

With the regular "Guitar In" it really sounds as if you had put a buffer in front of a tube amp, which thins out the bottom end and give more ice picky treble... whereas plugging the guitar in the "Return 1" (or into the Apollo with Native) sounds as if plugging a guitar directly into a tube amp : softer treble, fatter bass. 

 

I'm quite surprised you are getting the results you are getting. The added impedance on the guitar input usually "rounds out" the tone making it "less ice picky" than going into a RETURN input or Audio Interface. 

 

Perhaps the added impedance is messing with the capacitance of your cable. Have you tried different cables...