Considering adding a live subwoofer to the powered pa speakers that I use with my helix

[bendagostino8]

I currently run my helix directly into 2 mackie thump 15 inch powered pa speakers. It definitely has an amazing tone as is but I've been considering adding a 15 inch subwoofer. Has anyone tried this? Would it improve my tone overall?

[ricstudioc]

Purely subjective, what do YOU consider "improved" tone?

 

Personally - if you're already running dual 15", i don't know what you hope to achieve by adding another (or god forbid an 18").  If you play live at all a soundman would just start cutting everything below, say 100hz or so to clean up the mix.  I do sound for a number of locals, and I sure would.

 

I've been running dual 10" FRFRs since day one and get plenty of thump.  Perhaps some time with your EQ?

 

 

[bendagostino8]

On 8/19/2024 at 4:59 PM, ricstudioc said:

Purely subjective, what do YOU consider "improved" tone?

 

Personally - if you're already running dual 15", i don't know what you hope to achieve by adding another (or god forbid an 18").  If you play live at all a soundman would just start cutting everything below, say 100hz or so to clean up the mix.  I do sound for a number of locals, and I sure would.

 

I've been running dual 10" FRFRs since day one and get plenty of thump.  Perhaps some time with your EQ?

 

 

 

Whenever I play live at any decent sized venue I just connect the helix output to the house pa system. But my band plays alot of diy shows and house parties where I just bring my helix and my speakers. And also I tune very low wich is part of the reason why I thought the subwoofer might improve my tone. I usually either use my 7 string in dropped a tuning or my 8 string in drop f or f sharp

[SaschaFranck]

I'd rather think about getting different monitors. The Mackie Thumps aren't suited too well for tight low end ooomph and chugging.

[bendagostino8]

What would you recommend?

[SaschaFranck]

No real idea, to be honest. You might want to consider one of the more guitar oriented ones (such as those from Mission Engineering, but they're quite expensive). Or well, in case you're pretty much always tuned that low, perhaps even a bass cab (they're more or less fullrange, too) would be suitable. You might also want to checl out an RCF, I always found those to be pretty much on the punchy side.

But you would have to carefully check everything anyway. Just adding a subwoofer to some 15" which already go quite low likely won't do it.

[DunedinDragon]

Since subs generally only produce sound below 125 HZ, if you're playing guitar there's precious little benefit for  you.  Bass, keyboards and drums tend to get the most benefit down at those frequencies.  From the audience perspective they probably wouldn't even notice you were using a sub.

[waymda]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:42 AM, bendagostino8 said:

Whenever I play live at any decent sized venue I just connect the helix output to the house pa system. But my band plays alot of diy shows and house parties where I just bring my helix and my speakers. And also I tune very low wich is part of the reason why I thought the subwoofer might improve my tone. I usually either use my 7 string in dropped a tuning or my 8 string in drop f or f sharp

 

My 2c worth - have the band hire/invest in a FoH that includes subs. The overall sound will be improved substantially and you won't blow away your band members. I'm assuming that your current DYI approach is loud stage sound and minimal mix to PA. IMHO (and experience) thats a recipe for disaster - though a huge sound where vox never quite cut it.

[SaschaFranck]

On 8/20/2024 at 10:27 AM, DunedinDragon said:

Since subs generally only produce sound below 125 HZ, if you're playing guitar there's precious little benefit for  you.  Bass, keyboards and drums tend to get the most benefit down at those frequencies.  From the audience perspective they probably wouldn't even notice you were using a sub.

 

Well, he's saying he's regularly tuned down as low as to drop F# or even F. That's as low as 46.2493 or even 43.6535 Hz. A lot of standard monitors will start showing issues to faithfully transport these frequencies. Let alone do that with a certain tightness, the latter often related to a certain lack of mass/stability.

[theElevators]

Guitars don't need a subwoofer.  Unless you are playing some kind of a 9-string guitar.  Even still on stage, there is absolutely no need to have a woofer for guitar.  All it will do is rattle the floor and interfere with other instruments/drums.  Chords through a subwoofer... oof! 

 

Look at it this way, in a typical band, each instrument occupies its own frequency range, so there's no overlap.  For reference, I always refer to Led Zeppelin.  Their music is pretty heavy, but the guitar is always relatively twangy.  But both bass and guitar together create this massive sound. 

 

I've worked with many sound engineers who always took the bottom of the guitar frequencies and simply scooped them out. 

 

When you play at home without any other instruments, it's very satisfying to djent and feel the ground vibrate.  But with other instruments, it causes an incredible amount of interference as no 2 instruments are ever in tune--there will be rumble and waves beating when several instruments hit the same note--yes, even the bass drum!  So they will turn up because they can't hear themselves, then you will also turn up because you can't hear yourself. 

 

So in short, unless you want non-guitar sounds to come out of your speaker (bass, bass synth, kick drum), for regular guitar there is no need for a sub.  My method of amplification is still going direct to FOH, and on stage hearing myself through a power amp (Mooer Baby Bomb) running out of a single 12" cab.  It feels great, and very familiar.  And I do not even adjust my EQ in any way for the power amp, unless the sound guy insists to do so, when it starts interfering with his mix.