Advice for The following Config (dual amp, 2 path distortion, + 3rd amp for clean) Helix LT

[Vanderdecker]

I made a similar reddit post, but I thought I would see what the experts here thought too! =)

So here is the issue:

 

I have an awesome 2 path (2dsp) harmony distortion guitar tone. It uses one path for an PV Panama distortion tone with effects etc. that completely uses the entire path. set to mostly right pan.

 

The second dsp path is dedicated to another amp/cab with different effects AND a harmony so that it sounds like a completely new guitar. Panned mostly left.

 

This is the only way i have gotten that true 2 guitar feel. I have tried every trick I can for getting this sound on a single dsp but it just doesn't have the same feel.

 

Great, so I have the tone I love but, I also want to be able to switch to a clean tone seamlessly.

Unfortunately the standard trick of adding a new amp/cab block doesn't work because

a) I don't have enough DSP left and/or

b) the switching noise is terrible

 

My usual solution for the switching noise for distortion/clean effects is to use 1 path (dsp) for clean and the other path (dsp) for distortion, by placing a volume block in front of the path and set the gain to 0 or -120 via the foot switches.

Obviously what I really need is 3 dsp paths, but I don't have that since the helix only has 2!

soooooo, long story short. I am looking for solution this problem.

 

TLDNR:

I want to make a 3 path (3dsp-ish) preset, 2 distortion+1 clean, all with different amp and effects without any switching noise.

 

I would love to hear your thoughts!

[Schmalle]

On 2/17/2025 at 4:47 PM, Vanderdecker said:

[...]

Obviously what I really need is 3 dsp paths, but I don't have that since the helix only has 2!

[...]

Two DSPs but four paths: Path 1A, Path 1B, Path 2A, Path 2B.

Read the manual for page 20 [Serial vs. Parallel Routing] onwards.

[benriddell]

Obvious answer is to use snapshots to switch the Ev Panama and other amp a clean and distorted setting and stick with only two amp blocks

 

If you really need to use a clean amp (ie. Fender) then Path 1A-1B / Path 2A-2B is the best option using snapshots to control the flow of the signal from the A & B line (instead of switching amp blocks on and off which can cause noise/pops). You'd be best to utilise the same cab and effects blocks across your clean/dirty sound and only have the path split handle the amp - using two amps on one DSP chip will have you rethinking which effects blocks to use though

[Vanderdecker]

Thank you both. These are both viable solutions to try. I am worried that if i go with parallel paths I wont have enough dsp for the effects I want on both the clean and distorted paths. Changing the setting on the amp to clean is also viable, but then I am may again have issues with not having access to the effects I want for the clean/distorted tone (and the sound of the clean amp). I will try these out and see how close I can get. Thanks again.

If anyone else has thought I am open to suggestions!

[benriddell]

Something like this, where the direction of signal flow at the purple circle is controlled by snapshots

[Vanderdecker]

I tried the 3 parallel path method, but unfortunately I ran out of dsp on the 3rd path. The panama +reverb is just to dsp heavy. There wasn't enough dsp for another amp+reverb and effects.

 

I am in the process of trying Ben's method, where I use as much of the original path effects, cab, etc. as possible. If I get it working I will post an update.

[Vanderdecker]

So I tried every trick I could to use a 3rd amp, but the dsp wall was impregnable no matter how hard I tried moving the paths/connections. And swapping amp settings didn't sound great either.

 

I ended up using the 3 parallel method and completely dropped the amp out of the 2nd path entirely(because there wasn't enogh dsp for any with this config!). I have included an image of what I ended up with below. The distortion sounds awesome and the clean is acceptable, but not awesome. I am still looking for a better solution. Maybe I need to accept that I may need two different presets to get the ideal tone for both, then how to switch senselessly is the new issue. 

 

Anyway if anyone has more suggestions please let me know!

 

Thanks

 

[benriddell]

I maybe being thick or tired - you've got three separate/indepent paths, correct?

• Why the two gain/volume blocks on the top row at the end? (although they take up minimal DSP)
• What's the second row doing? (is that your "clean" path)
• Do you need both delays / volume/gain / EQ / dynamic blocks after the cab in the third row?

If your second line is the clean, stick a "pre-amp" and an IR block in there if have the DSP. That'll be better than a unamped sound

[benriddell]

You could use these IRs for your clean path:

https://youtu.be/6-fMuso3Ky4?si=kh-12BY_QXBu7Wbd

 

[Vanderdecker]

I haven't tried IRs yet, but that is an interesting possibility.

 

Yes,

First row is distortion right

2nd is clean

3rd/4th row is distortion left, with a bunch of attributes to make it distinct.

 

The two volume blocks at the end of the 1st row: 1 is expression pedal volume and the other is an adjustment to help separate the guitars. But as you said they use almost no dsp.

 

The greyed out delay in the 3rd/4th row is a test block and not needed, but since all my dsp issues are in the top two I didn't bother removing it. All the rest are used.

 

All the volume blocks at the beginning are for switching seamlessly as mentioned previously.

 

 

[Schmalle]

For a pristine clean sound I have great results using the Del Sol bass amp (dirt cheap DSP-wise) with a guitar cab e.g. the 4x10 US Super. Start with Gain 10, Bright on, Countour on, Master 10 and zero out the eq bands. I tend to end up adding a little 1kHz and take away a little at 2kHz.

 

If you want inbuild compression the Busy One Ch2 is another good low DSP clean amp choice.

[Vanderdecker]

Thanks for the idea. I will give that a go and report back!

[Vanderdecker]

Update:

 

1) I tried the Del Sol but here were the problems:

       A) I still didn't have enough dsp unless I dropped one of the 3 effects I had in that chain (compressor, flanger or delay). 

       B) I tried dropping the compressor and replaced it with the Del Sol (which worked dsp wise), but the tone suffered badly even with adjusting the Del Sol like crazy

      C) I tried removing all the tail ending volume blocks to eak out any extra dsp, it was not enough.

 

2) I tried using IRs and just cabs after the compressor in the clean channel. That worked somewhat! I had a limited selection of cabs and I am trying different IRs. Thus far the tone is not significantly better for the clean channel than what I had before but i can sculpt it a little more this way. (The IRs are essentially cabs after all).

 

Still not the world killer tone yet, but it is OK for the clean.

 

For a different preset I might try replacing the PV Panama amp with a less dsp intensive amp. That would probably free up enough dsp for a 3rd amp in the 2nd channel. But right now the distortion tone is just sooooo good =)

 

 

[silverhead]

Seems that your DSP requirements are heavy and there’s really no solution for that other than offloading some DSP to external pedal(s). The HX FX would certainly get you thru the hurdle, and something like the HX One might suffice for many presets.

[Schmalle]

On 2/20/2025 at 6:44 PM, silverhead said:

Seems that your DSP requirements are heavy and there’s really no solution for that other than offloading some DSP to external pedal(s). The HX FX would certainly get you thru the hurdle, and something like the HX One might suffice for many presets.

While that solves the DSP problem it also adds some new ones (noise, latency, complexity, MIDI).

[benriddell]

On 2/20/2025 at 5:20 PM, Vanderdecker said:

For a different preset I might try replacing the PV Panama amp with a less dsp intensive amp. That would probably free up enough dsp for a 3rd amp in the 2nd channel. But right now the distortion tone is just sooooo good =)

 

Try the Line 6 amps as replacements - in a copy of your preset obviously. They use less DSP than the "brand" ones but can give you cleans all the way through to heavy distortion (I've only played around with them a little so can't really recommend any specific ones)

 

Good luck!