Ways to achieve consistent sound levels across presets?

[Vanderdecker]

I am interested in learning the various ways to achieve a stable signal level across presets for a live setting in order to minimize adjusting the levels at the FOH/mixer. I am running a Helix LT. 

 

Any advice is appreciated! 

[silverhead]

There have been many threads about this over the years here. A search might turn some up. Here are the main points:

 

There is no global adjustment for this. You need to edit presets individually and use your ears for relative loudness reference. Start with your clean presets first and then move on to the crunch and distortion ones.

 

You have several parameters at the preset level that will control Volume without affecting tonality. They are:

- amp Channel Volume

- Output block Level

- a Gain block at the end of the signal chain (same affect as Output block Level)

- an EQ block Level with neutral EQ affect (no frequency boosts or cuts; all at 0db).

 

Use the amp Channel Volume first. Set a high level for clean presets and reduce it as presets get progressively dirtier. Use the Output block for fine tuning next. Use Gain/EQ blocks only if necessary.

 

[Vanderdecker]

I think I understand, but any chance you could provide a simple example of the Channel  Volume/Output Block setup?

 

For example let's say in preset A I have 2 different paths, one for clean with effects, one for distortion with effects, with volume blocks at the front of each chain for smooth sounding switching. 

 

For preset B, I have 2 different paths/routes for harmony guitars, panned slightly left/right in stereo. 

 

So in these examples I might have 4 different amps and cabs total. (2 in each preset).

 

My goal is maximum signal/gain out of both presets that will maintain the same overall volume when switching.

 

 

[waymda]

 

[Vanderdecker]

This guy always turns 2 minutes of useful information into a 20 minute video ;).  But I think I was able to sift out the useful parts. Thanks.

[jmillion]

On 6/24/2025 at 1:03 PM, Vanderdecker said:

This guy always turns 2 minutes of useful information into a 20 minute video ;).  But I think I was able to sift out the useful parts. Thanks.

Agreed. I definitely jog ahead to about 2/3rds of the way through to get to the point.

[theElevators]

Pick a signal chain and stick with it.  It's impossible to make 2 completely different presets with different amps/cabs to sound consistent.  

 

So do what I do: create one preset, and then create copies of it with slight variations.  Otherwise, with different PAs, if you have different virtual rigs, the volume jumps are inevitable.  Plus you know how in the olden days during a sound check, you'd check your sound?  Well imagine having to do this for 20 times, since you have 20 different presets that all sound different?  Volume leveling is just one piece of the puzzle, every amp is EQ'ed differently.  So even if it sounds like the volume is the same, the sound guy will have to make sound adjustments when you switch from a Marshall to a Vox. 

[silverhead]

On 6/26/2025 at 5:19 PM, theElevators said:

…  It's impossible to make 2 completely different presets with different amps/cabs to sound consistent.  

 

…So even if it sounds like the volume is the same, the sound guy will have to make sound adjustments when you switch from a Marshall to a Vox. 

Depends on what you mean by ‘consistent’. You seem to be talking about tonality, and I agree. A Marshall doesn’t sound like a Vox. That’s why you use different amp models. For some songs you want a Marshall sound and for others you want a Vox sound. But the two presets can be made ‘consistent’ in terms of volume/loudness, as you say.

 

As a player you sometimes want your own consistent sound for the entire show, especially if you’re playing your original songs. Sounds like you may be in that category. But if playing in a cover band you want differences, sometimes dramatic, in your tone. 
 

I don’t think the sound guy should be trying to achieve consistent tonality. You have control over your preset EQ and IMHO the sound guy  should not be imposing his tonality preferences on your sound. He just be concerned about leveling the volume which he won’t have to do if you’ve already done it.

 

Just my $0.02…..

[theElevators]

Speaking from experience.  Every amp is EQ'ed differently.  Depending on how the sound guy is running the guitar, certain frequencies appear louder than others.  It's just how it is.  You can measure things all you want, run things at home, or during the rehearsal, but one day one of your presets thing is just going to cut through everything like an icepick.  Or completely disappear.  And everybody will look at you like you're insane (been there). 

 

I've done a lot of sound checks, where the sound works at home, but then when you turn it on, on a large PA, it is just too loud, or not loud enough.  Been there many many times, and was forced to make adjustments.  Then also have been in a situation where something worked perfectly from the previous night, and in a different venue that same sound needs to be adjusted the opposite way.  Frustrating!  

 

So with completely different amps, this stuff can and does happen.  Most of the time if you think it is not happening, the sound guy does not want to tell you everything that is wrong with your sounds.  I have had a sound guy who loved to tell me those things, to my annoyance.  

[Vanderdecker]

I am trying to emulate a lot of different band sounds. So sticking to the same signal chain is not a viable option.

 

It looks like looping or playing the same few notes open A, open G, muted E, muted B, bar chord, open chord etc. and using a meter in a DAW (monitor LUFS etc.) and then adjusting by ear for every preset is the way to get close. Then having a backup of 4db/eq option for the live gig is the way to go. Someone mentioned add a 0-4db gain control to the expression pedal of every preset.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions, I am all ears!

[theElevators]

On 7/1/2025 at 10:24 AM, Vanderdecker said:

I am trying to emulate a lot of different band sounds. So sticking to the same signal chain is not a viable option.

 

It looks like looping or playing the same few notes open A, open G, muted E, muted B, bar chord, open chord etc. and using a meter in a DAW (monitor LUFS etc.) and then adjusting by ear for every preset is the way to get close. Then having a backup of 4db/eq option for the live gig is the way to go. Someone mentioned add a 0-4db gain control to the expression pedal of every preset.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions, I am all ears!

Look at the Edge as an example of a variety of sounds that he used to recreate before he started using Fractal....  He used to have something like 6 vintage amps with him for different songs.  He also used a different guitar for every song.  With a well-paid sound guy, this works.  For bar band gigs, that is not very possible, with a random sound guy who doesn't even know your set or when your solos are.  

 

I remember in the old days, using a minimal amount of gear: distortion/wah + amp took at least 15 minutes of sound check, to make sure that things are EQ'ed correctly.  To play a gig properly if you absolutely must have 10 different amps/chains, you need 10 different sound checks.  That's just an axiom.  Want to sound good?  Sound check every sound.  Otherwise the sound guy will constantly be chasing after your sounds, adjusting throughout the gig, turning you down, bringing you up. 

 

 

I suggest minimizing the amount of amp variety at the very least.  I myself play a bunch of stuff from covers, to pop, to rock, blues and originals.  I use one amp for everything: Mail Order Twin, which I use on a very clean.  Just being reasonable in how you approach your sound is key.  You can have every song use a completely different amp/cab, but should you?  Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should.  That's my argument.

 

Back in the day before modellers most people would just play with one amp, and be able to successfully make a living playing in wedding bands.  Just sayin' :)

 

My sources: I've played a lot of clubs all over Europe, USA and Canada and have seen what works and what doesn't.  

[trhx]

On 7/1/2025 at 10:24 AM, Vanderdecker said:

I am trying to emulate a lot of different band sounds. So sticking to the same signal chain is not a viable option.

 

It looks like looping or playing the same few notes open A, open G, muted E, muted B, bar chord, open chord etc. and using a meter in a DAW (monitor LUFS etc.) and then adjusting by ear for every preset is the way to get close. Then having a backup of 4db/eq option for the live gig is the way to go. Someone mentioned add a 0-4db gain control to the expression pedal of every preset.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions, I am all ears!

The problem with using a bunch of amps is that each has their own eq profile which may or may not be hidden under other instruments. IOW, you can set what sounds like the same volume when you're all alone, but that goes out the window with the whole band when one of your amps overlaps more with the bass amp. Every PA will also have it's own EQ profile, so what works at one gig may not at the next one.

 

At the very least, never try to match levels at bedroom volume. Do it with as high a volume as you can without hurting yourself. Do this over a period of several days because your ears will get fatigued and will start to skew the tone. Once you've done that alone, do the same thing in band practice.

 

You will also need to check mixer input gain levels from the Helix. All of your patches should hit approximately the same level except for solos that you boost, and even those shouldn't bump up too much. If you don't have the input gains under control, you will probably wind up slamming the mixer with your loudest patches. If you get into digital distortion, you can kiss some of your audience goodbye.