Old-Rocker

Not heard of EXEF,i'll check it out,if you don't mind me saying,if something is better you will hear the difference :) ,so don't go & listen to one of the CPA's. In a former life i was in the Hi-Fi industry & came to learn that everybody(even old & deaf people like me)can hear the difference. Your grammar is perfect,compared to mine.

Ok,i'm not sure if using FRFR is going to work for me,i've spent hrs.going through the Amp Models & adjusting all the parameters,but i just can't get it right for me. I'm using our Yam DSR 115's in the living room,which is a reasonable size,at least as big as some of the small pubs we play,i'm probably not getting to gigging volumes,but i'm getting to reasonable levels,the 115's are at 12'o clock(our normal gigging level)but without the gain from the mixer & the Master on the 500X full up. But when i use the 500X through the Rocker Combo,at similar levels,it just sounds better(to me),although,using all 3 does sound good,really deep & Full. One thing or sound that's really bothering me with just the Yams,is there is an edge or emphasis to the note,that i just don't here in the Combo,almost like a double hit,with the plec,or maybe a deadening on the fret??,but the main thing is no Depth/Body to the sound Also with reference to my idea of playing it back through my Hi-Fi system,it sounds crap :( . Anyway,i'll stick at it,i've never been into using amplification at home,might be better at live practice/gig levels. The good news is the Drives etc sound great into the Orange,so not money down the drain :D

For once on this Forum.i can speak about a piece of equipment with a bit of knowledge,with the proviso that i forget fast. ;) The MP-1 was a Valve Pre-Amp(3 x 12AX7's if i remember correctly)which has 128 programmable presets(selectable via Midi footswitch) & you could set those with any combination of S.S or Valve Clean,it has 4 eq selectors,2 gain stages,which could provide as much gain you could stand,it also had a built in Chorus(or at least mine did),i used mine for a few years with a Mesa 295,sounded great,got fed up with carting the whole rack around(that had a pile of stuff that i had no idea about),but i did keep One unit a Digitech Dual Band midi eq,that i've still got somewhere. Just in case anyone's interested :)

Hi,Smashcraaft,i think he's talking about Solid State or (old speak )Transistor circuit topology. By the way did you check out KS digital?top stuff(if you can afford it)

Hi,can i just clarify something for myself,i just read your post,are you saying you are using Pod XT direct into the "amp in" of 2 x L6 spider tube amps,for your on stage sounds?is that Power Amp in or effects return(i'm not familiar with Spider Valve),but i will be in a bit. Can i ask,in your opinion,is it the way that the Amp/speaker is designed or is that it is a Valve power amp that,gets you your feel? I've just bought a 500X,that i'm using into an Orange Rocker "Natural channel",i keep reading that to get the best out of 500X,i should be looking at FRFR. So i'm starting to try & get into using FRFR(for want of a better description),to eventually use on my Gigs(smallish pubs),but so far i'm not "feeling it",but i'll keep at it & we'll see(i have a thread going on this). Thanks for posting i'm reading all i can & i appreciate all the things i'm reading/learning from the Forum(& a bit from others). Oh,and you don't qualify for OLD :) . Cheers.

I'm a complete novice at the 500X & i'm sure someone who really knows what they're talking about will tell you exactly what the problem & solution is. But something i've noticed is,when i'm using Edit & have sent my settings,to the 500X & it's indicated it's receivedt hem,the * asterix *sign is active on the patch ,which normally means the patch/settings needs saving. this probably has nothing to do with your issue,because it dosen't say in the manual,to do a manual save on the 500X after using edit. But might be worth a look,until someone provides the correct solution. :)

Hey,Matt.Like you i play at very small pubs in the UK,with neanderthal(acoustic)drums,as you are aware a lot of these pubs don't have enough room to swing a cat in the set-up area. We use our own PA never had monitors,we always here the vocals & that's with reasonably loud on "stage" Guitar/Bass amps. I can't believe there is no possibility for small Combo Guitar & bass amps,when i had my Cube 60,it would fit amongst the drum stands,i would imagine a small floor monitor as mentioned in the thread(Alto),would do the same thing & let the bass player worry about himself :D ,just kidding,if he has a sansamp,maybe run the Bass through the Alto or there are lots of really small footprint Bass combos available. Also if your PA is a couple of Boxes on Stands,you could put your "ALTO"under a Stand,the other guitar player could do the same,if you have Bass bins,with tops on stands sit the monitor on the Bins(sorry Subs ;) ) Just a couple of thoughts.

It's ok for you to talk,you're a young man :)

Thanks,for the advice,i understand what you're telling me & you are of course correct,but to be fair to myself :) i can get the System up to pretty realistic volume levels,so i'm comfortable i would get a pretty reasonable idea of what was going on,or at least good enough to get me somewhere near. I also have our Yam DSR 115's in the Living Room & can check it through those(when SWMBO is out)but to be honest the Hi-Fi system is way more accurate than the Yams.

DunedinDragon.Thanks for the reply,yes you are correct,i am genuinely interested in learning how to make things work,one of the reasons for this is(& for once i won't be flippant about my age),i am getting old,so i try as hard as i can to keep my brain working & learning about things,specially things i've been doing for a lot of my life,i do believe it keeps your brain from seizing up(what bit i've got),i know this is bit of a stretch on a music gear forum,but it's good practice for everybody :). Yes,it does help & thanks for the information,during my reading up,i've found that the 500X,can be used direct into computer recording software & more importantly can become the playback device,for connection to a monitoring system,i don't want to sound like i know what i'm talking about,it's what i've read. So i'm going to load my sons old recording software on to my computer & hopefully get it playing back through my Hi-Fi system(which is pretty good,even if i do say so myself)then i can tweak away at house/wife volumes & know that the eq/sound will be the same,at whatever volume i play at,sounds great in theory :rolleyes: . Once again thanks to all you guys for keeping my brain going :)

I'll carry on with the Dual Amp,L/R,comments,it's still relevant to FOH,as you say. When I used 2 combos on Stage,they are tight to each other,but the 2 sound are still distinct,but it also blends,if i where using the 500X in Dual Amp/Signal path,i wouldn't expect to pan hard left/right,but to be honest i didn't use the Combos in our PA,the Bass & Drums where mic'd(& of course the Vox) but not the Guitar,it never felt like it needed it. On the rare occasion we played through a Hire rig,i frankly have no idea what the Sound Guy did with my Amps,i just said i had a different sound from each Amp & left it to whoever was mixing. As i introduce the 500X Amps into our set,i'll work out the panning as i go along,as i said earlier in the thread,i've only played the Amp Models through our Mid/Highs at home & the mixer was panned(in the 500X)L/R,but with the combo Amp also in the mix it sounded pretty full,we'll see as we hopefully progress :) . Back to FRFR,after reading through the posts a few times,i'm beginning to get the idea of what is expected of the Amp Models for on stage sound,i'm starting to get a feeling that it's more like blending a recorded guitar sound through the Foldback & FOH,with a sound presentation more like listening through a good Hi-Fi system,"that's my reference",i know zilch about recording,but i suspect it's similar to a decent Studio Monitor playback. Does this sound reasonable,or am i wrong again :D ,i'm trying to get an idea where i should be heading when building Amp Tones,i'm not going to say patches,that's way down the road,i'm going to head for 1 good usable "PATCH" for a gig by using the 500X in "manual" 8 switch mode to get me going. Sorry for rambling on again :)

Hi,i've sort of hijacked my own thread,with the Dual amp questions,but it's something i'm interested in discussing,would it be better to discuss dual amps in a seperate thread.?

I've looked at the L2T/M rear panel & it has L/R inputs,so does it sum the L/R signal to mono?,if so do the amps blend ok in single drivers?,or does it get muddled. I suppose i'm trying to ask is running dual amps into 1 x L2 usable or does it require 2 speakers to get the true effect, now that i'm typing this i can see my original question wasn't clear, & i suspect i can guess the answer :)

Hi,cruisinon2.Would using Dual Amp/signal Paths require 2 of these for stereo operation?

So,would it be a reasonable summary to say that guys using FRFR are replicating(or as near as possible) what they're hearing from the 500X in a studio/home recording situation & carrying that into a Live/Gigging situation for consistency & a more faithfull reproduction of the models? Where as people using Guitar Amps are simply making a Guitar sound in a more traditional(old fashioned?)way,like me :) ?

Luckily for me,i'm very limited in my playing & taste,so getting an an acoustic guitar sound,is never going to be an issue. :) .

Hi,Smashcraaft,i don't know how to post a link but if you look this up,it should get you there,very professional,amazing audio. http://www.ksaudio.com

Ok,I really love these conversations/topics it takes me back to a former life,(which at my age i'm very pleased to say i can still remember :lol: ),when i was a sales rep & part owner of a small hi-fi company & we would pontificate about stuff like this forever. So if this gets really boring just ignore me. :) What has started me thinking about this,is 2 or 3 days of playing through our Yam DSR 115 active speakers at home,cranking them as much as i can get away with while still retaining a wife. So i'm saying all of the following from a live/gigging in pubs etc. perspective,where Combo guitar amps rule :), I doubt that any of the affordable semi-pro 2/3 way active stage/monitor type boxes(like ours above) are truly Flat response,without running through an outboard DBX type unit to correct the response,so we're into eq adjusting at once. Next am i correct in my assumption that the modeled Amps/Cabs in a 500X,are trying to faithfully recreate the actual sound/frequencies of the original products,they're modeled on?if so what's the point in putting the signal through Full Range cabs with X-over & speaker configurations,which have no relevance to the original product,or am i missing something & need to adjust my ideas?(serious question) :) . I'm sure i'm not getting anything like the best out of my 500X into our Yams,but at this stage(to me) it just dosen't sound convincing,until i introduce my Combo amp into the mix,but i'll keep at it,because i'm determined not to use a Valve Combo(which i have at present)for future gigging,with 500X. Sorry for rambling on,but one of the advantages of being old & retired(sort of)is having time to ramble on :D A note to Smashcraaft,have you listened to the KS digital(made in Germany) stage/monitor systems,probably the nearest thing to a flat response pro-product i've ever heard,but a lot more expensive,than a Velocity & Cab. Cheers.

Hi,if the 500X is based on creating Amp Models & Effects for electric Guitar,why is FRFR recommended so strongly,instead of a Clean Guitar power amp & speaker cab?,just curious about this :) .

Hi,i'm a TOTAL novice with the 500X,& i'm going through a similar set-up to yours(guitar amp),i'm using an Orange Rocker30C,but to date i'm getting pretty much the opposite tonal experience to yours,my amp models sound really bright/trebly,but the effects work really well. Are you going into the JC amp Front Panel guitar input or into an effects return or Power Amp in ?do you play at gigging or home levels?. As i said i'm a complete novice,but try the following. Input Source 1: Guitar. Input Source 2 :Aux. Input Z: Auto. Output :Studio Direct: Line/Amp switch set to Amp. I've also found the Line 6 Drive & Distortion pedals work great. If you play at low levels be carefull how much "DRY" Guitar sound is dialed in,in the Amp Model By-Pass Volume,if the Amp volume is very low,you can get a lot of dry Guitar in the signal. I'll say again i'm a real novice & i probably shouldn't be answering questions or giving any advice,but it might help & can't do any harm,i think :)

Tha Thanks,as i said in a previous post,the Rocker 30 is very unusual,in the fact that,there are no tone controls.on the Natural channel.only a Volume control.

Thanks,Joel Brown,i'll give this a go,if i'm using Studio Direct would you set line/amp switch to Line?.

Thanks,for replying.In my response to the comments about plugging into the "pre-amp" of the Orange,i did say that it is probably the closest input you could find to plugging into the Power Amp section,there is only a Volume Knob,with no tone Controls,there will be an amount of pre-amp,but it is minimal,think of an original AC30,but without the single tone knob,i'm not sure how different it would be plugged directly to the power-amp,because then you would probably still need a Master Pot. Having said this i have watched some Videos by Peter Hanmer,where he plugs into the front(Guitar)input in a Combo & he gets a really good "thick" sound,like the Orange without the 500X,i know it's Vid & not live,but the sound is there. My point is it must be possible to get what i'm looking for from the 500X into the Orange,i just don't know how to go about it & i'm looking for a starting point,as i said in my original post,i'm a bit bewidered with all the possible EQ'ing solutions & i just need pointing in the direction :) Cheers.

The Rocker,has no effects loop or power in,it's a very basic Amp,with Natural & Dirty Channels. The Natural Ch. has no tone Controls,it's basically just a Volume pot in front of the Power section,so as Combos go,i think it should make a fair stab at the 500X amp models. In terms of putting the 500 into the PA,I play in 2 Bands,no PA facility with this Band,it's all about basic Rhythm & Blues with as much energy as us old guys can muster. But with the other Band(which is my Main Band)we have a decent Yamaha DSR system,& that will be my main focus for the 500X. I only gave it a go last night just to see :) & i could easily just use it for the overdrives etc,with that Band the overdrives,worked great into the Rocker natural CH. Having said this,i'm still surprised at the sound/tone of the Modeling Amp,into the Rocker,it's a very thick sounding amp,i'm really quite surprised by the tone through it,but plenty of time to get used to it. So know basic ideas where to start with the eq's?

Plugged in the 500X for the first time last night with the Band & the Combo Amp i'm using TEMPORARY(Orange Rocker 30C) My initial impression is that the Amp Models I selected to start with SLO 100(Clean,Crunch,Lead)where very,Bright,Thin,No Body),i hate trying to describe tones,so that will have to do, . There was no depth or body,even with the Bass/Mid full up,Treble Presence backed all the way off(knobs on the 500X),i tried every mode of output available,from the Menu,i also tried Pre only models & Full Amp models,all had a bit of an affect on the sound,but the predominant tone as described above,remained the same. I am a bit lost with all the various EQ sections(e.g. Amp Combo Front,Global etc). Can anyone give me a guidance how to get set-up with Just One of the SLO amp models,to get some guts/depth into it. This EQ/Tone is completely different from my other attempt at using a Floorboard modeler,which always seemed like it had a blanket over the Speaker. The clarity/definition is there,but surely i should be able to get a Bassey middley sound by just turning the Tone knobs ?,i'm sure it can be done & my lack of expertise is the problem,i just need a place to start,i find all the extra EQ options bewidering. On the plus side i got a really good pedal sound with the Amp Models switched off,the Orange reacted great to the Overdrive etc. Can anyone help a pensioner out? :rolleyes: :D