zooey

This. Along these lines, I'm realizing that my dream of a minimalist rig with just a pedal are a fantasy. Really, set up is... - Guitar into Helix - Power into Helix - Speakers onto poles - Power to speakers - Helix to speakers All speaker setup is probably x2, if I want to do stereo like I have been at home. If I'm going to have speakers in the back line, Helix rack would have made a lot more sense ergonomically. Minimal, no. Oops.

Hah, well yes, there's likely to be a small PA for the vocals and horns (solos at least), but my guess is nothing else will be mic'd. No idea how big the space is, or how many people will be there, or how loud the band will want to be. I have a pair of Alesis Alpha 112s, and you're right I almost certainly don't need to 2 for volume, but I've been running stereo and like it, so I'm going to try that. There are several inexpensive pairs of speaker stands w a bag on eBay, I'll probably try one of those. If anyone has any stand recommendations, please say. There's also some chance the 80-100hz peak I hear will go away if the speakers aren't on the floor in angled monitor position. If I don't like what I hear live, I'm not sure I'll want to just leave it be. For one thing, there's no point in doing this if I'm not having fun! For another, this will be my first FRFR gig, and my first time playing with or for people in many many years, so I'll also be wanting to learn and adjust.

Still moophing about in my basement studio, but thinking about gigging and jamming, specifically a reunion gig with one of my high school bands (lord help us all...). Today I was thinking about how I'd set up my 2 FRFRs and Helix on stage. I've been playing with them on the floor angled in facing me, like monitors, but what if there's no PA (likely for that reunion thing, I think?), and I'm covering the room? They'd need to be behind me. As an experiment, I turned around, like the speakers were behind me, trying to be the same distance away. Boy did that sound different, much less bright. Didn't expect that. I guess ears themselves just point forwards. That means there's always going to be a big difference between what I hear and what the audience hears. Don't like that, but far as I can see, there's no real alternative to putting your speakers behind you if you're trying to fill the room, and the stage. Right? Pole-mounting the speakers would be much better for filling the room, and they do have fittings for that, but I don't have stands, and I kinda don't want to make my rig into any more of a pretentious Big Deal than it has to be. Anyway, that's not going to change the ears-direction thing, they'd still be behind me. So how do you folks set up FRFRs on stage? Like monitors? Back line? At the sides pointing across? Do you pole mount them? (Guess not if your using guitar-cab-shaped ones.)

Don't know what exactly you want to see, but there are lots of pics here: http://www.tonymckenzie.com/line6-helix-effects-unit-floor-pedal-inside-and-out-review.htm There's a link to his full video review at the bottom of that page, may have some more views of the internals.

When you're running direct, are you hearing your bass just through the monitors, and backwash from the PA? If so, I'm not surprised that's a problem, unless they're pretty beefy. Stage monitors just aren't designed for that. I'd expect a decent FRFR rig to feel much better. (Which I'm aware you don't currently have, and no doubt don't want to buy or carry.)

You're probably out of DSP horsepower on that path. Helix won't let you select blocks it won't have adequate power to run. Try to split your blocks between the two main paths. It's my understanding the the top path also runs some of Helix's general housekeeping processes (the operating system, so to speak), so there's a bit more juice available in the lower one. I often put the amp as the first thing in the bottom path, so stuff that goes before the amp (typically wah, distortion, noise gate if I'm using one, some but not all modulation, compression, and EQ) goes in the top path. Seems to work out well for me. Not that I never run out of DSP for something I'd like to do, but in general it's ok. And of course feel free to do anything that works for you, sonically and DSP-wise :)

There's definitely other software that does something like ARC, at least in the frequency domain. ARC uses a licensed system that also does some time/phase correction, not quite sure it it manages to measure that, but that's what they say. Kind of embarrassing, but I bought ARC on radical sale several years ago, and I've still never used it. I really should take a run at my DAW monitoring setup, which is what I got it for of course, but somewhere around that time I stopped recording much, and fell into just playing guitar (and a bit of keys, which I suck at but enjoy sometimes anyway). For studio monitors, which stay in the same place in the same room, taming that setup's peaks and troughs is clearly a win. For a guitar rig that's going to move around, I'm less interested in those small-scale anomalies, more thinking about general frequency balance. That relates strongly to the speaker emulation you choose to target, which leads down the "what is reality" rabbit hole I'm trying to avoid thinking about. I got very mentally stuck for a while, feeling like I shouldn't do anything until I understood where my speakers stood in relation to some abstract idea of a PA, really trying not to go there again. Making sounds I like right now is much more fun :) Anyway, if I do try the ARC thing, your idea of making an IR from the ARC result is interesting, but like you mentioned, DSP usage is likely to be an issue, Yet another reason why I'd really like something in Helix's form factor that ran VST plugins.

Well, I wasn't saying I'll never create another patch ;) This one has two different ODs, so clean(-ish), crunch, and pretty wailin', but I'm sure I'll want other completely different amps and/or cabs too. The thing that struck me was that I was just playing, not fishing around for patches as much, just using it like an amp.

First off, sorry, I misspoke about them being Altos, they're Alesis Alpha 112s. According the the third post in this GS thread, they're supposed to be an improved version of the Alto TS112a. A bit further down he A/B-ed them, with mixed results. I got a pair of them new off eBay for under $400 shipped a while ago, and AFAIK there's nothing very comparable for that kind of money. Stereo, certainly loud enough, reasonably transportable. Far as how I'm doing with them, that's a bit more complicated. Part of what hung me up at first was not trusting their frequency response in some absolute sense, and that's still more or less true. An iPod through them is too bright, and there's a peak around 80-100hz or so. I considered setting the global EQ so I liked commercial records through them, and spent a fair amount of time and emotional energy worrying about "what if I like my sound on stage but it sounds awful through the PA?". But really, every PA and room will sound different. PA probably has some sort of smile curve EQ, because people like that sexy punch in the chest, and that artificially hyped high end detail. The sound will change as you walk around the venue, because physics. The FOH person will be used to dealing with that, and with guitar sounds the player likes on stage, mic'd up with some not-flat mic, and they'll make whatever you send them work in the mix best they can. I can't get rid of all that variability, and don't want to ruin my life getting lost in that hall of mirrors. In the end, I've pretty much ducked the question. I'm just trying to get my rocks off in the environment I'm actually in -- pair of Alpha 112s in my not very big and very low ceiling-ed but somewhat treated and pretty dead basement "studio", playing by myself. Sounds different when I move around, even in that relatively small space. -- on/off axis, nearer or further, louder/softer, yadda, the realities of real-world sound distribution and psycho-acoustics. I have an IK ARC System 2 that I might try to do something with at some point. Can't use the compensation plugin without a computer, so you'd have to look at the suggested curve on screen and try to match it with Helix's global EQ. Anyway, while you have a choice of different listening environments to emulate, none of them are a live PA, much less any specific one in a specific hall, and... wait, hang on... hall of mirrors again... Bottom line for now is that I'm treating this pretty much like any other amp, trying to make myself happy. It's working :)

After getting it to a pretty good place, I've been tweaking it a bit, exploring some alternate fx, but mostly I've just been playing. This is new, and it's a really good sign. Means I'm beginning to "trust" the Helix. Before this, I respected its capabilities, loved the UI, and had enjoyed it very much in headphones, but after switching to the Alto FRFRs I bought a while ago, me and Helix weren't really at peace. I felt like I was fighting with it to some extent. I expected to be building a bunch of presets, like I did in Amplitube (which I love, but haven't played since Helix), but no, I've just been refining this one, and Playing Guitar, like I've done since 6th grade, Cool. EDIT: I misspoke, speakers are Alesis Alpha 112s, a bit more info below.

For a backup rig, $599 is a bit rich for my blood, though it seems like a great option. Has anyone tried the Line 6 AMPLIFi TT? It's tiny, relatively inexpensive, and should plug right into your FRFRs. Biggest downside I can see is that as far as I can tell it doesn't have MIDI input, which is a problem for patch changes and footwitch-like stuff.

Funny coming together of two topics in this thread... This page in the official Helix Knowledge Base referred to above talks about why phantom power shouldn't be applied to the Helix XLR outs: http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/effects-controllers/helix/helix-xlr-outputs-and-48v-phantom-power-r771 FWIW, this thread talks about phantom causing lots of hiss, seems ot be a different issue: http://line6.com/support/topic/17205-xlr-hiss-phantom-power-and-helix/

Hang on. Peter, you're saying you run the 1/4" outs through a DI to the PA? Then I gather you're using the XLRs for your stage rig? Why is that? Is it because you want the DI there to protect against phantom, so you might as well use the 1/4"s for that, leaving the XLRs for stage?

Thanks Peter, I'd expect that in general. Balanced only matters for hum and other interference rejection, which shouldn't be super important for reasonably short runs at line level. Also, no other choice.

Thanks Phil, should have looked more carefully. When I didn't find physical dimensions in there, kind of figured that "specs" (whatever that means exactly) weren't there. Far as what else, well nothing ATM, just had been looking recently for dimensions (not in the manual, pretty sure), and the title topic (which I gather was), just wanted to know what places there are to look So I guess running an unbalanced line level signal to FRFRs from Helix isn't a huge deal. Seem the only option, if you want separate control over that vs FOH.

Would like to reserve the XLRs for FOH, but would also rather run balanced to FRFRs, given Murphy's opinions on random interference. For the record, where are tech specs for the Helix in general? Not in the owner's manual that I found. Went to Sweetwater to get its actual dimensions, for instance?

Ones that seem best to me, sight unseen, are these: Gator G-MULTIFX-2411 - 24"x11" Effects Pedal Bag $60 @ SW SKB DJ/Keyboard Controller Soft Case Model: 1SKB-SC2714 $90 @ SW Line 6 Helix Backpack $150 @ SW The backpack looks great, but I don't know that I feel great spending that much on it, especially since it's still not something you can throw in the back of a truck or check as baggage. Gator has a great rep, and theirs is cheaper than the SKB, so that seems like the best shot to me. Comments?

Cool stuff. Wish there was a way to access these and future presets without joining Facebook, which isn't going to happen here.

Maybe, but that's kind of like yelling louder because there's a lot of noise -- it doesn't get you heard, it just escalates the whole thing. I voted for the ones that are important to me, which is how this system works.

Not familiar with exactly how auto-engage works. Going by the name, if turns on automatically when you move the pedal, right? So how does it turn off? After some specified amount of time? Doesn't seem like enough control. You couldn't park your wah on for one of those cocked-wah sounds (it'd shut off because it's not moving), or just shut it off immediately at the end of a solo (it'd stay on for however many seconds it takes to realize it's npt moving). Or does it mean it toggles on-off at one or the other extreme of the pedal throw? That might be better, but still somewhat easy to turn off accidentally while wah-ing, I'd think. If either of those are how it works, doesn't seem like a holy grail to me. Suppose I'd have to actually try it to know for real though.

Are those IRs from roscoe5 here? If so, very cool, nice work from you both! (Well nice work in any case, just trying to figure out which IRs you mean...)

You've probably already looked at this, but there are actually 3 states in play when a controller is assigned, the initial values, then the min and max values from the controller. The behavior you describe would happen if Drive (say) was initially set to 5, and the controlling footswitch moved it up to 10 when pressed (max value), then down to 0 (min value) when pressed again.

Just to say it, the factory patches aren't consistent levels either. I've recently settled on trying to match the level of my own preset 0. Pretty random, but it doesn't really matter, just a consistent reference. Which I guess means I shouldn't ever edit preset 0, doesn't it. Next plan, anyone?

Realistically, I use the noise gate in the input block when there's enough gain for the hum to bother me. But that's hum being picked up by my guitar, not originating in Helix. If you think it's coming from Helix itself, that may not help.

I think some people send 1/4" Helix outs to their monitoring rig, and XLRs to FOH. In global settings, you can apply the global EQ to the 1/4" outs and not the XLRs, so it doesn't affect the PA. In that scenario, the global EQ is best used to compensate for differences in rooms, not as part of "your sound" as you hand to FOH.