nhoven

Yeah I got that. I've had the problem since before the HX was announced. My guess is that not enough people reported the issue since (my guess) it's far from being the primary use case for the Helix, so it "slipped by". I've opened a ticket and got the response that Line 6 was aware of the problem and working on a solution... and to be patient.

okay, I wasn't getting what you were getting at :-). I kind of didn't really read your last paragraph... sorry :-). I will prepare a proper recording of the added noise levels and open a ticket, tehn. I'll keep you guys posted.

It's an issue with certain preamp designs, I agree. My conclusion: The Helix (my Helix) simply doesn't work with certain designs. The issue is: Those are very classic and popular designs. The amps I've seen mentioned, both in this thread and elsewhere, share the same design principle of using multiple tube stages (usually four) with moderate gain to shape the tone instead of a few high gain stages (or adding distortion though semiconductors). Yes, every device has a certain noise floor, and if you amplify that noise floor by 70 or 100, clamp it down, and repeat that four times, that noise floor becomes an issue, that's the nature of it. Also, I don't think the converters are the problem; I would think it's the analog circuitry after the converters. I'm just wondering if nobody at Line 6 ever hat the idea to pair the Helix with an SLO, 5150, Knucklehead, an Überschall, or a Hot Rodded 2203. I can put a cheap Danelectro Vibe pedal in front of my high gain channel, and it produces less additional noise than the Helix. I can't believe no one noticed. Or, as I said before, maybe most people are simply accepting the noise as part of a high gain setup... At this point I think there's nothing that can be done. The 4CM simply isn't possible with certain preamp designs without external gating. Serious Question: Could this be related to the issue in the sticky post about the HX FX Audio Artifacts? I found this youtube video that seems to show exactly the same issue. Is it possible that there's a similar issue with the Helix and it was overlooked, because the 4CM isn't the primary use case (in contrast to the HX FX)? Is it worth filing a support ticket at this point? Really, I'm not trying to shift blame or lollipop off anyone... I'm just bummed that things don't work as planned.

Hi Phil, not to be too bold, but that's where you're wrong - alot of it really comes down to how the amp's preamp works (see below). Read the above reply again - he had the exact same experience as I did: No effects loop involved. I had 100% the same issue - Send from the Helix to amp input, hissing and noisy as hell, and not even thinking about four cable method. And the noise is coming from the analog domain, as it cannot be influenced by any of the Helix's volume controls or gates. I have no personal experience with the Bogner Atma (and I could not find a schematic), so I can't comment on that. But both my amps and the Soldano HR100 are designs with four gains stages (plus cathode follower), which is ALOT of signal amplification (technically: That's four stages in series with a µ of around 70 to 100). The samples I heard of the Atma (and the fact that it only has three ECC83 including the phase inverter) suggest to me that some (if not alot) of the Atma's gain might be coming from FET / diode clipping, which is fundamentally different from clipping through a gain stage in terms of noise amplification... so yeah. That might explain why some amps with high gain sounds are fine, and in some designs the Helix's output noise craps the hell out of the sound. Me, I have given up on hoping to get the Helix to work with my amp, at least as far as using the third channel. Noise level is acceptable with the second (Marshall 2203-ish gain level), but sub-par with the third one. Kind of dissapointing that the output noise of a flagship unit like this one is so bad... or was "overlooked". I would be curious if the analog output circuits of the HX FX has been redisigned, or if it is just as bad with certain preamp designs.

I've been through everything and spent countless hours investigating. Empty preset (apart from a send block), send set to instrument, feeding the input of the amp via the isolator - noise unaffected by any means of volume control or gate inside the Helix. Doesn't get any simpler.

I'm using the Palmer BALUN PLI05.

I would suspect that they save on the quality of the transformers. I have no idea what transformers are used in the Ebtech device, but the transformers used by Lehle or Palmer are pretty high quality and thus rather pricy.

It's not that easy, I think you might be missing the point, at least for my case. Hum is not the issue, so "just guy the hum eliminator" is not going to fix anything. And yes, I do own a high quality isolation transformer, just not the Ebtech one. Feeding the tube amp's input from the sends of the Helix introduces nasty hiss and what sounds like digital noise even before I start thinking about 4CM. Using the Helix's noise gates proved as completely useless as the noise is produced outside the DSP domain. Not trying to offend you, but saying that if I can't get a low noise level, then the amps that do have that problem are faulty is plain ignorant. I have no idea why some people don't have that problem; I have it with three different amps. Maybe not everyone is as susceptible to noise or used to the noise high gainers produce (and there are some VERY noisy amps out there). My amps are very quiet even on high gain settings, and I can't stand the noise the Helix produces.

No, no other cables connected. To be honest, I've given up on that topic. Maybe I'm extremely picky, but for my needs, the increased noise floor is simply unacceptable. Adding to that the bugs with MIDI toggles and snapshots (my amps are MIDI controlled), I've concluded that the Helix isn't going to cut it with my amps. Not all is lost though, I'm having loads of fun running the US Deluxe and Placater models into the amp's power section. Both sound amazing, so that's the route I will be going with. Silver linings.... sort of :) .

Worked for me, too. Thanks for the info.

yeah I'm no idiot, I can read, thanks. The coupon code doesn't work for a registered Helix Floor, it only does for the full price version.

Unfortunately the 30% code isn't valid if I try to buy Helix Native with a registered Helix Floor (which would be really cool and actually enough incentive for me to buy it even though I don't really need it). Is it working for anyone, or is it just me?

Update on the topic: Still not working in 2.50, kind of gotten worse even. Updated my support ticket, will let you know what reply I get.

Because I want to use the functionalities of the USB interface of the Helix, like parallel recording a dry track for reamping and so on. Also, I'd like to skip the duplicate DA-AD-conversion.

Hi there, I really would like to use the Helix USB interface within my DAW (I use Reaper on Windows 7) alongside my desktop audio interface, to which my monitors are connected. From what I found online the only way to do that is using Asio4All instead of the native ASIO drivers. Sadly, the interface I currently use does not play nicely at all with asio4all and the helix. I have Behringer UMC202HD which I bought as a pure monitoring solution and for the occasional amp DI recording. Trying to use it in conjunction with the Helix in Asio4All results in all kinds of crackling, popping, skipping, you name it, no matter what settings I choose. I'd like to know if anyone here can name suitable interfaces that work together with the Helix and Asio4All. I don't need many I/O-channels; one or two inputs, two symmetrical outputs and a headphone out (preferably with its own volume knob), and I don't really want to spend hundreds of Euros either. So, can anyone name (small) interfaces that are known to work with asio4all and the Helix? Thanks! P.S. connecting the monitors to the Helix is not an option for various reasons (cable management at my desktop and the lower XLR and 1/4" outs on the Helix not reachable [there's an isolation transformer blocking those in the pedalcase] being the major ones).

No, my issue is the other way round: Controlling the bypass state of one block from multiple sources. Which is impossible (for good reasons, I guess). Not really. As I said, I use snapshots for the big changes, i.e. for fundamentally different sounds within one preset, for specific sounds in different song parts. To do so I set the snapshots mode to discard. If I use snapshots for amp channel changes, whatever stomp changes I made will not be remembered on a snapshot change. At least that's how I understand it. That's actually a neat idea. I'll play around with that. In general I guess I'll get used to having to press two buttons. Would have been nice if there was some trickery I wasn't aware of, but... well :rolleyes:. Thanks!

Maximum freedom of choice B) . I don't want to "waste" a snapshot for a simple amp channel change; for me the snapshots are for the big, radical changes - like from clean with compression, reverb and delay to bone dry lead with some phasing ;) . But if all a song requires is switching from a clean channel to a lead channel for eight bars, that's hardly worth using a snapshot. Plus, one night I might throw in a subtle chorus for a song, on the other night I might leave the sound "dry". I can't have that creative freedom if I tie my amp channel changes to snapshots. I restrict myself in my sound choices if I rely on snapshots. I'm a stomp mode guy, that's the only reason.

Hi, over the last few days I've tried to recreate my discrete live setup in the Helix. I've gotten pretty close with the sounds, but I struggle a little bit with the FS setup for stomp box mode. I've used two amp blocks, the Twin Reverb and 2204, to create three "channels": The Twin for the clean channel and the 2204 for the crunch and the lead channel. I set up one FS to switch between the amp blocks and one FS to alter the gain and the tonestack as well as adding a low cut EQ-Block before the 2204 for the lead channel. So I have two switches, one engages the dirt amp, one changes its gain and tone. No worries so far, works. My question: Is it possible to change a footswitch's state via another footswitch? What I would love to be able to: Engage the dirt amp with the "lead" switch, i.e. being able to switch from clean to crunch with one button hit as well as from clean to lead. With the current setup I'd have to step on both the crunch and the lead switch, which works of course, but in a live situation it's an unneccesary uncertainty factor. I know it's not possible to assign the bypass state to more than one FS. Is there any imaginable way around this (in stomp box mode; I know it works with snapshots) and "activate" the other FS along with the lead switch? Like controlling the FS state via another FS? Another scenario where this would be nice to have is controlling a midi enabled amp, where you would have one button per channel with the led indicating the active channel. So, have 3 PCs on 3 footswitches, step on one, led lights up, the other two go off. create exclusive botton groups, I guess. Any of this possible in any way? Any ideas? Thanks!

Yeah I've tried both the main out and a send. Only difference is that the send produces additional ground loop noise and need isolating even in that simple config, main out doesn't. Also all my tests (except where I recorded guitar of course) were done without a guitar connected. Changing the Z from auto to 1M made no difference. Makes sense, as it's an empty preset w/o any fuzzes etc. Helix probably sets it to 1M anyway. Right?

At this point, I have long stopped to connect the Helix with the 4CM. It's just Helix - Cable - Amp input. That alone creates that hiss. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Good points. I was actually planning on measuring the level increase of Helix sometime this week. I think this is a secondary issue though. As I've found out so far, the added noise is not affected by any of the volume control measures inside Helix (which are all inside the digital domain, as far as I can tell), while the noise seems to come from somewhere in the analog domain, or at least outside the scope of the control measures in Helix. So while it's easy to adjust for the added level tone wise, this does not affect the added noise, which will stay at the same absolute volume, while the wanted signal will be reduced. What I would have to do is to adjust that gain after the Helix with external gear to affect both the wanted signal and the noise. Which sucks of course, because I wanted the Helix to be the sole piece of gear to use :D . That's what I've gathered so far anyway. I'm still investigating, but my impression: Meh, noise floor is kinda high for a flagship device :) .

Yes, I noticed that, too. It's a bit less muddy, too, but I suppose that is because of Helix buffering the cable length and reacting a bit different to the pickups than the amp. I've checked the level settings and even re-did and reuploaded the clip before you answered. I've set the volume knob to only control digital volume so it's "out of the way" and can't be accidently turned down. I've rechecked that with a clean signal, knob full yields the same volume as full up, but Helix adds about 3 dB to the signal compared to straight into the amp. Unity gain seems to be more like 3 o'clock on the vol knob. Those 3 dB don't matter though. The noise increase is way more than those 3 dB, I think. Edit: actually it makes matters even worse, because I'd have to attenuate the output to the amp to compensate for Helix pushing the amp harder, while the noise floor would stay the same.

Thanks for the confirmation. That really sucks. I mean, I'm suspecting that over the long run I might probably switch to using the Helix's preamps running into the power stage of my head, but not really being able to use is as a "drop in" for my FX rack makes thew transition phase really hard. I've broken out the recording setup and prepared another audio clip, this time with some guitar as a reference for the "wanted" signal. I recorded the amp's preamp out straight into the DAW and applied some quick and dirty speaker simulation. This is the highest gain channel with the gain set at about 3 o'clock. Helix is running an empty preset, the 1/4" out is feeding the amp input.You'll hear (in order): - noise floor of the tube amp without Helix - me playing without Helix - noise floor with Helix connected - me playing with Helix connected The clip repeats three times. If this really is the expected noise floor of the Helix, then this really sucks. Or I'm too picky, because my amps are pretty quiet even on high gain. But again, none of my other gear adds so much hiss. noise sample with guitar.mp3

using a gate or any kind of volume manipulating block in the digital domain does nothing for me, which leads me to belive the issue is somewhere in the analog circuitry of the helix, or at least outside of the DSP paths.

yes, thanks. I've got the 4CM-connections covered, that's how I do it, using Send 1 (Instrument Level) and Return 3 (Line Level) because the amp's loop is line level. For examining the problem I broke it down to the simplest form of connecting. And yes, of course I used proper cables. Different ones too. As I said, running the Helix into the DAW, active monitors or even the clean frontend of my amp is working fine. Running the Helix - even with everything off - into the frontend of the amp using the lead channel of my amp produces a high amount of hiss. I'm trying to figure out if something is wrong with my unit, or if my expectations (of a pretty pricy unit) are too high, i.e. if that's the "normal" noise floor of the Helix that is being aplified the hell out of (which a high gain tube amp inevitably does). Although I must say, none of my other gear, analog or digital, is giving me so much hiss...