Well, it's time I guess

[smrybacki]

First of all, I am only bothering to write all of this because I like most of you folks and I have been a member of Line 6's forums since probably 2002 or so.  That's because I have owned many Line 6 products over the years and in turn that is because I always felt Line 6 was the best of the lot when it comes to the modeling game.  I still do, even though the market is starting to saturate and high end offerings (read: expensive!) such as AxeFX and Kemper are out there.  Dollar for dollar, Line 6 HD modeling is just a better value IMHO.

All that said, I am selling off all my modeling gear.

I have been in the modeling game for a long time, and I have owned a LOT of dedicated modeling devices:
 

• - Digitech RP-300
• - Korg Pandora 3
• - Vox Tonelab Table Top w/ VC-4 Foot pedal
• - Boss DR-880 Rhthm Doctor w/ G6 guitar processor
• - Tech 21 Tri-AC (analog modeler)
• - Fender Cyber Champ amp
• - Line 6 Pod 2
• - Line 6 GuitarPort
• - Line 6 Pod Xt Bean
• - Line 6 Pod XT Live
• - Line 6 Pod HD 500
• - Line 6 JTV59 Variax

 

So yeah, that's a lot of trys at using this sort of technology.  I should point out that I am  and have been a computer programmer, both hobbyist and now professionally since the mid 1980s, plus I have a strong electronics background including vacuum tube theory, integrated circuit design, boolean logic and so on, so digital technology is easy enough for me to use.  In other words, not one of these devices as thrown me for a loop usage-wise.  My current rig is the JTV59 into the POD HD500 and out to a pair of Tech21 Power Engines so anyone interested in any of that, PM me and we'll discuss offline.

So why then am I getting out of the game?  I am 56 years old now, and I was raised in the analog age.  I remember taking television tubes down to the pharmacy and running them on a tube tester.  I loved that!  I know how to operate an oscilliscope, VTVM and how to solder (a lost art) and I have worked on tube amplifiers my whole adult life, both in the Air Force on KC-135A automatic pilot systems and on my own guitar amplifiers.  This ancient tech is still my center and after long consideration I am having to admit I don't really need to change that fact to keep pace with theadvances in guitar tech.  I don't gig anymore, so hauling gear often isn't an issue.  If I do go out and play an open mic or a group jam with friends somewhere, I always take my Princeton Reverb and the small analog pedalboard I have, plus a Strat or Tele anyway.  I tried taking the HD500 and Variax a couple of times, and it was a very mixed result.  Some stuff sounded fine while other carefully crafted patches withered and died in the mix.  But my analog rig has never done that to me.  If I need more volume, I can hit a simple boost pedal and ride the volume knob, but the overall tone stays constant.  If I need more grind, same story with an overdrive or distortion pedal (I have one of each). So there is that aspect but also, I pretty much have settled into a certain kind of sound, namely my analog rig.  I just love the way it sounds and feels every single time I play it.

Last evening, I sat down to record a few ideas I had for some acoustic oriented cover songs using the Variax and POD HD500.  These songs are in alternate tunings and acoustic which is the number one reason I even got the Variax to begin with -- sheer laziness on my part to just retune an acoustic manually lol.  In any event, the so-called "ghost notes" have always driven me nuts on this Variax, and although I know that raising the output volume "solves" this, sometimes you don't want things to be loud (like when you sing vocals to keep the song structure right) and last night was one of those times.  In the end, I ended up grabbing my 35 year old Yamaha FG-365, putting an old Lace Sensor  sound hole pickup into it, tuning to Open E and recording that instead, without the distraction and it came out great really.  This sort of thing happens to me a LOT really -- I always revert back to a POG (plain old guitar) and retune after getting frustrated.

In any event, since I am currently broadening my horizons by studying some jazz theory via TrueFire, it occurred to me that maybe I ought to just stick with what I really like, stop being so lazy about tuning and just play the damn guitar, instead of wasting all the time I have trying to get some sound in my head out of a modeling device.  The problem isn't with the devices, it is with me and my perfectionist ways and for me right these things are more of a distraction than a joy so I guess it's time to just let it go.

[duncann]

In any event, since I am currently broadening my horizons by studying some jazz theory via TrueFire, it occurred to me that maybe I ought to just stick with what I really like, stop being so lazy about tuning and just play the damn guitar, instead of wasting all the time I have trying to get some sound in my head out of a modeling device.  The problem isn't with the devices, it is with me and my perfectionist ways and for me right these things are more of a distraction than a joy so I guess it's time to just let it go.

 

I can relate to the technology being a distraction, and sometimes maybe even an excuse, from just playing the guitar.

 

Kind of a drastic measure, though, getting rid of all that stuff? I hope you don't regret it later on.

[Mr_Arkadin]

Moved this to the Lounge as it seems more a general discussion rather than specifically HD.

 

Anyway I would keep at least one modeller for quiet practising at least - unless you can play at any volume day or night, a situation most of us aren't in.

 

In my current trio we plug guitars straight into the amp. That's it apart from a tuner. For home studio work I prefer the control modellers give you. Whatever works for you works for you. I'm just glad you haven't committed the usual forum suicide drama queen antics and declared how "Line 6 sux and made me hate music and I threw it all in the skip!".

 

The important thing: keep playing and keep having fun, however you get there.

[zaphodboy]

I can relate to the technology being a distraction, and sometimes maybe even an excuse, from just playing the guitar.

 

Kind of a drastic measure, though, getting rid of all that stuff? I hope you don't regret it later on.

 

100% agree with you about technology being a distraction. I think the problem with modelling gear is that people tend to try to be too clever with it. Because the HD has 100+ effects it's easy to try to shoe horn as many of them as possible into your patches. I have certainly fallen into this trap. After spending a ridiculous amount of time tweaking and still not getting close to the tones I wanted I ditched all my patches and went for a less is more approach and you know what? My tone is now 100% better than it was. I have around 10 patches with a different amp model in each. Within my patches I have a little reverb, one modulation effect and an OD pedal of some kind, maybe some EQ.....that's about it. Nothing else to muddy the sound. IMO that's how to get the best out of modellers.

[sidroe]

I can relate to your story completely. I grew up in the good old analog days and fondly remember trotting down to the local drugstore with a cigar box full of tubes to check on the refrigerator size tube tester! Ah, those were the days. I am a little older than you and have played professionally for over 45 years, both live and studio. The last ten to fifteen years I have operated a project studio to help songwriters develop their skills and compose my own material.

The debacle I have is there are just too many choices to make when it comes to deciding which amp or FX or cab! In the "old" days, we would drag in whatever amp we had and throw up a mic, get the sound and hit record. That raw philosophy worked then! Why does it not work now?

I MORE THAN OFTEN, spend more time browsing around and trying to get the PERFECT guitar rig sound for a particular song when I could have just went with the raw instinct and made some music. Don't get me wrong! I do love this technology and have been heavily brow beaten for doing so. I really do think that things would move a little quicker creatively if we had less choices of a better quality. There are some amps that are an absolute necessity but it seems we get a lot of filler amps that never get touched.

I have to agree that there simply is not anything better than plugging in to a REAL tube amp with your guitar of choice! I don't think any modeling will ever capture the magic of the gas in those tubes heating up and singing. At the same time, I can't lug around hundreds of amps to do sessions or perform. I am very happy with the line 6 modelers and will continue to use these products. Although, like you, I do have to fight the tendency to just break out a mic and pull those amps out and set the time machine for 1968! LOL! 

[Brazzy]

First of all, I am only bothering to write all of this because I like most of you folks and I have been a member of Line 6's forums since probably 2002 or so.  That's because I have owned many Line 6 products over the years and in turn that is because I always felt Line 6 was the best of the lot when it comes to the modeling game.  I still do, even though the market is starting to saturate and high end offerings (read: expensive!) such as AxeFX and Kemper are out there.  Dollar for dollar, Line 6 HD modeling is just a better value IMHO.

 

Glad you figured out where your center is and I'm sure someone will buy your gear. I like an all tube amp myself.....so much I'm wanting to buy a MOJO kit and put one together or just buy one, lol.

 

I also understand how one can get lost when working with digtal musical instruments that's why I had to make my own rules which were timing myself. I would tweak for 15 minutes, no longer, and make sure I spend more time getting my fingers to do what I want them to do when playing the guitar. Works good, of course I don't gig with it yet. That would be another story. I like the idea of just picking a guitar up and playing it. Most of the time I can do just that 'cause my guitars seem to stay in tune pretty damn good.

 

Rock On smrybacki!!

[smrybacki]

I can relate to the technology being a distraction, and sometimes maybe even an excuse, from just playing the guitar.

 

Kind of a drastic measure, though, getting rid of all that stuff? I hope you don't regret it later on.

Honestly, I can always get the latest and greatest later on anyway.  The one thing about the digital approach is that it won't be long until "the next big thing" comes along -- reference my list of "exes" lol...

 

Moved this to the Lounge as it seems more a general discussion rather than specifically HD.

 

Anyway I would keep at least one modeller for quiet practising at least - unless you can play at any volume day or night, a situation most of us aren't in.

 

In my current trio we plug guitars straight into the amp. That's it apart from a tuner. For home studio work I prefer the control modellers give you. Whatever works for you works for you. I'm just glad you haven't committed the usual forum suicide drama queen antics and declared how "Line 6 sux and made me hate music and I threw it all in the skip!".

 

The important thing: keep playing and keep having fun, however you get there.

 

I left one modeling device out of my list that I will keep -- my Fender Mustang Mini which is battery operated even, but has sounds I like (Fender style tone) and a headphone jack for silent practice.  I also have aBoss Micro BR that is suitable for that and can record if necessary.  Those two things will be my future, along with a pretty decent DAW setup with POD Farm Platinum should I wish to go that way.  Sorry about posting in the wrong spot :)

 

100% agree with you about technology being a distraction. I think the problem with modelling gear is that people tend to try to be too clever with it. Because the HD has 100+ effects it's easy to try to shoe horn as many of them as possible into your patches. I have certainly fallen into this trap. After spending a ridiculous amount of time tweaking and still not getting close to the tones I wanted I ditched all my patches and went for a less is more approach and you know what? My tone is now 100% better than it was. I have around 10 patches with a different amp model in each. Within my patches I have a little reverb, one modulation effect and an OD pedal of some kind, maybe some EQ.....that's about it. Nothing else to muddy the sound. IMO that's how to get the best out of modellers.

This really is the heart of it for me anyway -- "just one more tweeak" or "what if I had two delays?" type thinking.  I have done what you have done, namely making a few basic patches with minimal (or no) effects, but it just never worked out because I'd always still end up adding this or that and going down the rabbit hole again.  Distraction and lack of focus kills my practice initiative and replaces it with tweaking.  So I usually just plug straight into my little silverface Vibro Champ to practice to avoid all of that.  As I said up front, the devices aren't the problem -- I am.

[smrybacki]

I can relate to your story completely. I grew up in the good old analog days and fondly remember trotting down to the local drugstore with a cigar box full of tubes to check on the refrigerator size tube tester! Ah, those were the days. I am a little older than you and have played professionally for over 45 years, both live and studio. The last ten to fifteen years I have operated a project studio to help songwriters develop their skills and compose my own material.

The debacle I have is there are just too many choices to make when it comes to deciding which amp or FX or cab! In the "old" days, we would drag in whatever amp we had and throw up a mic, get the sound and hit record. That raw philosophy worked then! Why does it not work now?

I MORE THAN OFTEN, spend more time browsing around and trying to get the PERFECT guitar rig sound for a particular song when I could have just went with the raw instinct and made some music. Don't get me wrong! I do love this technology and have been heavily brow beaten for doing so. I really do think that things would move a little quicker creatively if we had less choices of a better quality. There are some amps that are an absolute necessity but it seems we get a lot of filler amps that never get touched.

I have to agree that there simply is not anything better than plugging in to a REAL tube amp with your guitar of choice! I don't think any modeling will ever capture the magic of the gas in those tubes heating up and singing. At the same time, I can't lug around hundreds of amps to do sessions or perform. I am very happy with the line 6 modelers and will continue to use these products. Although, like you, I do have to fight the tendency to just break out a mic and pull those amps out and set the time machine for 1968! LOL! 

See, I have had to be honest with myself and really ask myself what my goals are -- I am very goal oriented in most areas of my life.  As I have gotten older, and arthritis has begun to creep into play, I realized that I don't have forever to accomplish my original goal of being the best PLAYER I could possibly be.  I've become a hell of a TWEAKER in the last 10-12 years, and I can get some ethereal sounds at times -- but I tend to play the same old riffs and "comfort zone" classic rock I grew up with and I am not stretching myself musically when I am doing that.  Now, I know that many of the brethren in the modeling world achieve TONS of inspirational new things using Line 6 and other gear.  I am just having to be true to myself and admit that I'm not one of them.  I do best by sticking to practice routines and learning new songs in different genres where I wrap my head more around the music than which amp and guitar the guy who wrote it may have used. 

 

Glad you figured out where your center is and I'm sure someone will buy your gear. I like an all tube amp myself.....so much I'm wanting to buy a MOJO kit and put one together or just buy one, lol.

 

I also understand how one can get lost when working with digtal musical instruments that's why I had to make my own rules which were timing myself. I would tweak for 15 minutes, no longer, and make sure I spend more time getting my fingers to do what I want them to do when playing the guitar. Works good, of course I don't gig with it yet. That would be another story. I like the idea of just picking a guitar up and playing it. Most of the time I can do just that 'cause my guitars seem to stay in tune pretty damn good.

 

Rock On smrybacki!!

Thanks Brazzy, appreciate the thoughts.  I wish I had the ability ti limit myself, but the computer nerd inside of me sort of takes over at times and BAM!, there went an hour and a half I should have been learning a song lol.  My answer to a vice as always been the elimination of the source...re: building an amp, I think working on amps and guitars is a great side job.  In fact, I am wanting to start a tube amp repair services when I get good and sick of IT work.

[Brazzy]

Thanks Brazzy, appreciate the thoughts.  I wish I had the ability ti limit myself, but the computer nerd inside of me sort of takes over at times and BAM!, there went an hour and a half I should have been learning a song lol.  My answer to a vice as always been the elimination of the source...re: building an amp, I think working on amps and guitars is a great side job.  In fact, I am wanting to start a tube amp repair services when I get good and sick of IT work.

 

Getting rid of the vice is always a good measure to moving on.

 

Let me know when you need a reliable amp tech of course a bit of training would be involved, lol. I love that sort of thing and was thinking about doing something in that area....building guitars and amps sounds like fun to me, lol. :)

[cruisinon2]

 I do best by sticking to practice routines and learning new songs in different genres where I wrap my head more around the music than which amp and guitar the guy who wrote it may have used. 

 

 

As a means to this particular end, check out www.jamtrackcentral.com

 

Lotsa good learning tools there, and everything is a la carte, so you're not stuck subscribing to anything. Tons of instrumental compositions in a variety of styles, price generally includes  the full track, backing track to play to (sometimes including a track at a slower tempo to work through the more complicated passages), tabs and standard notation of the whole piece, and often a video of the artist playing through it. I've discovered several super-talented players on there. Great for learning new approaches to improv and songwriting, that you can then adapt to your own compositions.

[smrybacki]

As a means to this particular end, check out www.jamtrackcentral.com

 

Lotsa good learning tools there, and everything is a la carte, so you're not stuck subscribing to anything. Tons of instrumental compositions in a variety of styles, price generally includes  the full track, backing track to play to (sometimes including a track at a slower tempo to work through the more complicated passages), tabs and standard notation of the whole piece, and often a video of the artist playing through it. I've discovered several super-talented players on there. Great for learning new approaches to improv and songwriting, that you can then adapt to your own compositions.

Hey, thanks for the linky...can't hit it from work here, but I can later :)

[VAX700]

Aww! I'm 66 and back in the digital FX game. Just don't make any rash e-decisions you'll regret later. Oh, by the way... How much for the HD 500 and JTV 59? (Yeah, I know... My wife calls me heartless too.)

[smrybacki]

Aww! I'm 66 and back in the digital FX game. Just don't make any rash e-decisions you'll regret later. Oh, by the way... How much for the HD 500 and JTV 59? (Yeah, I know... My wife calls me heartless too.)

See this thread for how things worked out with this.

[wilson69978]

100% agree with you about technology being a distraction. I think the problem with modelling gear is that people tend to try to be too clever with it. Because the HD has 100+ effects it's easy to try to shoe horn as many of them as possible into your patches. I have certainly fallen into this trap. After spending a ridiculous amount of time tweaking and still not getting close to the tones I wanted I ditched all my patches and went for a less is more approach and you know what? My tone is now 100% better than it was. I have around 10 patches with a different amp model in each. Within my patches I have a little reverb, one modulation effect and an OD pedal of some kind, maybe some EQ.....that's about it. Nothing else to muddy the sound. IMO that's how to get the best out of modellers.

Amen to that brother!