haller88 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I might be up a creek this time with my POD HD500. I have had the HD500 for 3 years and never had any issues except for a loose USB connection. It always works but I have had to reconnect it sometimes because it stops working. Well tonight it was working fine with the computer and I decided to update to the latest firmware. I launched Monkey and updated to the latest Monkey program - that went fine except I did get a Norton warning while it was firing up after the new installation - I clicked on ignore on the Norton utility which was strange - I never had it interfere with any Line 6 programs before. I went to run the update for the USB 1.04 driver - the driver install seemed to go well - the firmware seemed to push over to the HD500 and the program instructed me to unplug the HD500. I unplugged the HD500 and the unit didn't reconnect via the USB. I rebooted the HD500 and the computer multiple times. I tried three different USB cables and two different computers and multiple port with no avail. I did the very stupid procedure to reset the unit (pressing left on selection button upon power up. Never should of done that - I lost all of my patches! No USB. I reinstalled Monkey and the drivers - no USB. I checked the Hold for System I/O without the computer hooked in - USB Driver reads 0.00. I tried the "safemode" power up (hold the selector right and power up) and went to the Firmware selection (I did nothing but selected it which highlighted Firmware). I booted up Monkey and it didn't recognize the unit. I am pretty much at wits end. The computer recognizes something is hooked to the USB port every time but comes up with an error message "USB Device Note Recognized" It looks like I am at the end of the line - I could send into Line 6 who I am sure will charge over $100 to fix plus shipping - I know the USB port is not in good shape due to a design flaw but I am pretty sure something went wrong during the USB firmware flash. Any ideas of something else to try (especially since I tried all of the easy things)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazuwa Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Your loose USB is the weak point. Sorry, but you must send it to a Line 6 service center for repair and explain. I wouldn't delay. Tell them about: a. your loose USB connection -> I guess the connection got loose again during update!!! b. about the failed USB firmware update -> You wish to get it returned with latest USB firmware and software version! SafeMode cannot help here. Loose USB connection bundled with interrupted USB firmware update? Repairing your loose USB connection is also important for future works. What else should I say for the future? Use HD500 edit to backup your SetLists/Bundles before? Or disable Norton real-time protection after downloading Monkey and before installing PC driver update? Sounds clever somehow. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haller88 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 I fear you might be correct about the USB port being loose causing the issue. The download of the USB firmware seemed to be going well until it came up to the point where I was asked to disconnect the power to the HD500. I knew that moving the power cord could also move the USB connector on the board and it appeared to cause it to loose connection at a critical time. Or the loose USB port cause the firmware to be corrupted on the transfer from the computer to the HD500 which would cause the issue. The one good thing is that I have a HD500X for my main rig with all of my latest patches which I can use to restore this unit (my backup) when I get it repaired. Thanks - I was afraid it might be a combination of the USB port poor design and pushing the firmware. I am interested to see if Line 6 will stand behind their product whatsoever since this appears to be a design flaw in the unit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazzy Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I fear you might be correct about the USB port being loose causing the issue. The download of the USB firmware seemed to be going well until it came up to the point where I was asked to disconnect the power to the HD500. I knew that moving the power cord could also move the USB connector on the board and it appeared to cause it to loose connection at a critical time. Or the loose USB port cause the firmware to be corrupted on the transfer from the computer to the HD500 which would cause the issue. The one good thing is that I have a HD500X for my main rig with all of my latest patches which I can use to restore this unit (my backup) when I get it repaired. Thanks - I was afraid it might be a combination of the USB port poor design and pushing the firmware. I am interested to see if Line 6 will stand behind their product whatsoever since this appears to be a design flaw in the unit... Sorry to hear your update failed. I agree with you that whoever designed the HD500 with such a poor USB port should be ashamed or the very least not happy about it. A poor USB port is critical to the life of a product like this. When I first received my HD500 and started to look at the weak point ('cause there's always a weak point/s) first thing I looked at was that USB connection to the POD. When I saw it was very weak and loose fitting I said to myself "hhmmmmmm" I better use gingerly fingers with this one, lol. I have the TonePort UX2 and the USB connection in that is Rock Solid. When I push the connector in it I can feel a positive lock on it. This is not so with the HD500 connection. In my experience the USB connection to the POD is weaker than even the loosest USB connection to the computer. I hope you get it fixed. There are videos in the forum/youtube of someone replacing the USB connection to the POD, not easy but doable IMO. Hope you get your POD working again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 It is unfortunate but a standard USB port connection was not designed to be a robust connection that will withstand the kind of use we give it with a Pod. It was designed to be on the back of a computer and not to be plugged and unplugged many times. Line6 does not design and make USB jacks. They are somewhat at the mercy of what is available in the type to attach to their board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haller88 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 I understand that USB ports are not really design to be plugged and unplugged multiple time but I was quite careful and surely the Line 6 engineers know that users will plug and unplug the device maybe 20 or 30 times a year so a flimsy USB seems unreasonable for the use case. Line 6 did correct the issue with the HD500X - it has a very solid USB port instead of 4 flimsy wires. Microsoft did the same things with their Zunes - the connection port was a row of wires that you needed to be careful of - my wife and daughter weren't super careful and they shorted the devices out (Microsoft had already dropped the Zune). I got the last model of Zune and they had a solid connector piece that was very robust. I would guess Line 6 probably saved 30 or 40 cents on the USB port but caused a number of issues. I think I could fix the USB port (it appears to be working better now - in fact I adjusted the wires slightly and it doesn't appear to be a finicky to maintain a connection) - the main issue is that in the process of downloading the new USB driver - the installation has been compromised or corrupted and there is nothing to allow Windows to properly recognize the port. If I had another way to push the firmware for the USB port to the unit (like through the MIDI port or use another program that the repair centers have - like a test fixture or diagnostic app) - I could probably get things working again. More than likely I will have to send to a repair center for a large fee. I work for an electronic manufacturer and we are looking at the same issues so I know where Line 6 is coming from but it still bums me out that I am a bit of victim on this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I fear you might be correct about the USB port being loose causing the issue. The download of the USB firmware seemed to be going well until it came up to the point where I was asked to disconnect the power to the HD500. I knew that moving the power cord could also move the USB connector on the board and it appeared to cause it to loose connection at a critical time. Or the loose USB port cause the firmware to be corrupted on the transfer from the computer to the HD500 which would cause the issue. The one good thing is that I have a HD500X for my main rig with all of my latest patches which I can use to restore this unit (my backup) when I get it repaired. Thanks - I was afraid it might be a combination of the USB port poor design and pushing the firmware. I am interested to see if Line 6 will stand behind their product whatsoever since this appears to be a design flaw in the unit... If the firmware update got as far as asking you to disconnect the power, it was likely successful. At that point, moving around or even disconnecting the usb cable wouldn't matter. But you're right that trying to update the usb firmware with a potentially loose usb connection could cause some strange behavior. The host computer's usb implementation could also be a factor. What makes you suspect a loose connection? If the option is available to you, try to get it working on a completely different computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 The weakness in the USB jack is the plastic center insert. It can break off easily and then you end up shorting out the connection and damaging the USB chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazzy Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 It is unfortunate but a standard USB port connection was not designed to be a robust connection that will withstand the kind of use we give it with a Pod. It was designed to be on the back of a computer and not to be plugged and unplugged many times. Line6 does not design and make USB jacks. They are somewhat at the mercy of what is available in the type to attach to their board. I understand your stance on the subject. Many standards can be very low. Above standard is best for delicate areas of a device, IMO. I'm not putting down Line 6 as I realize they may not have total control of what happens in the production of a product. In fact I've praised Line 6 even when I've got a problem. I really like Line 6 products and own many of them some people own even more than I. I really just wanted to point out that there are nice tight USB jacks and loose floppy USB jacks. It's important for people to understand to look closely at these points so they can make an educated decision before they go and do an update with a connection which is questionable, risking they brick their device which might ordinarily be working fine. Now this pod owner has large hunk of nothing and is forced into getting a repair which might be very costly. My whole life as a mechanic/machinist is based on prevention and stability. If something I made came back and I didn't warn the user that it might fail I would be less trusted. Knowing this, it made me focus very hard on predicting possible fail points of a particular part and I would let my findings be known. This means looking closely at details which can be a detriment to the safety and experience of a user. I've been held to a very high standard of service so it's habit for me to try to give tips to people to help them be aware of things that can cause a costly problem and/or harm them thus the goal of making their lives better. We should always realize, perfection cannot be completely realized but only that we can consistently strive for the elusive perfection, lol. BTW striving for perfection is taxing, lol. I'm guessing many who buy the POD's don't have much excess funds on hand to buy more POD's or have major repairs done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTSC777 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I dont use any of this useless Norton Mccafey etc... anti - virus crap.Its worthless and causes nothing but problems.I have updated Zoom L6 Roland Boss and a bunch of others and never had a problem. Turning it off wont help as it runs all the time in the background.Remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haller88 Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Some good points - thanks for the idea Duncann on the firmware update being successful but the USB finally failing. I almost wonder if the new firmware is more sensitive the USB failures or issues than the old firmware set - I will admit that my USB did not have the plastic piece in the middle from very early on. It is interesting that I could get it to work with a loose USB for the last two years and now I just can't get the USB working with the new firmware. I can't flash back to the old firmware due to not being able to see the HD500 in Windows so I can't test it out. I have been very careful whenever I update things and this time it was no different. I ordered a new USB port for the HD500 and will install in a couple of weeks - I will see if it addresses the problem... On Line 6 side - it would have been good to do a FMEA on the items like the USB - it seems like it was design issue from the beginning - but in defense of design engineers - you can't think of everything. Most user would not pick up on the fragile USB port until it is too late. I was careful with mine but I also have kids and at least a couple times found my equipment moved around and wonder if the plastic piece was broken off by the kids... Thanks for everyone's suggestions... P.S. Hopefully I didn't fry the USB chip or my work will be for naught.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 In the meantime of waiting for the new port, you could disassemble the pod and splice a usb cable to the usb port to see if you could get it working that way; if you have an extra usb cable lying around anyway. I would guess things like the usb port are beyond the choices engineers have. Someone in their department probably said to use this one because its cheaper (this stuff adds up on mass produced stuff). If engineers had their way a lot of the time, for products like this, you might get something of the quality of fractal products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Problem with USB is it's a standard. Maybe some jacks are more robust than others but they are all flimsy when it comes to daily use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjnette Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Read all this and if you have any questions I am happy to answer. I understand when it stops working you try all the usual fixes but if the USB is physically damaged or internally disconnected, you can replace it yourself if you can solder. But first some hope, the unit may not be recognized because of driver incompatibility with your Windows update. In other words you might be missing a windows update for the latest drivers like I experienced. Normally you just roll back the driver only when you uninstall the uninstaller. By that I mean you run the uninstaller and only select driver which may include the HD500 not Monkey or EDIT. You restart the computer with the HD connected via USB and it will automatically update the drivers and be recognized. Now as you reset the unit the latest drivers probably wont work. Download from the Line 6 a previous installer or even older. perhaps the oldest . All you are doing is getting the device recognized via USB. Device unrecognized pop up is also a good indicator. Finally, as dunncan pointed out if you got as far as you did on the install you were up to the turn the unit off and back on, the latest FW was installed. If it clearly said disconnect USB and reconnect. Restart your computer has worked for me after updating the drivers. When I have had the latest drivers the HD is not recognized with the latest drivers.Nothing, not even device not recognized. I then run the uninstaller and uninstall just the drivers. Restart the computer and it finds the drivers and installs automatically. Now you can do the USB and Firmware updates. Worth a try before you buy a replacement USB connector and pull the HD apart. Also my son uses my computer sometimes and I found he got into the bad habit of applying pressure to the USB connector on the computer. In fact he has ruined two of them due to his phone having a poor USB connection. Even on computers they are just soldered to the board and held with a couple of pegs like on the HD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haller88 Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hi Bjnette, Thanks for the suggestion - I did uninstall all of the Line 6 components and then installed a driver from 2012 that I knew worked with my POD HD500. It didn't work - I still get the USB Error message that the device did not initialize properly. It was a good suggestion. I have the new USB port on order and will install in a week and see if that helps - last stop will be a service center but at least I have my HD500X working! Thanks for all of the suggestions and I will let you know how I work out on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Usually the fix also involves replacing an internal component that gets fried when the usb port short circuits. You may be lucky enough that just replacing the port will do the trick, but I think it's unlikely. You will probably still need servicing at an authorized service center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjnette Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 If your computer says device did not initialize properly, that means it sees it. What is key is restarting your computer after uninstalling the drivers. Though you have probably done this, It is probably the device. There is a video on replacing the chip that gets fried as well as the usb connecter. It sources the supplier and it also does the USB connector. As silverhead says the chip gets fried and needs to be replaced not just the usb connector https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlY3sV4UXk4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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