Smart Harmonizer Question

[CipherHost]

I'm trying to get the Smart Harmonizer in my HD500X to work with the dual lead on Run to You by Brian Adams.

 

I know just enough music theory to confuse myself. So if you are going to explain this to me, which I really would appreciate, please do so on the "this guy doesn't have a clue" level. Thanks.

 

This is what I have done so far:

 

I picked out the beginning of the song as I was noodling around starting with the first note of A on the 5th string.

When I went onto youtube to start learning the rest of the song, it sounded like they started with the first note being an F#.

So I went to my trusty Custom tuning option an dropped my new Variax Standard 3 semitones. (produces a little warble when you let 4ths ring for a few seconds, but I don't know if there is a way to fix that)

So now I can play the beginning of the song as though I'm in the key of "I have no friggin clue"

I tried pretty much all the key signatures and choices from the drop down list of Maj, Min, etc. at -3 and I can get close on many of the notes, but not all of them. Now I could be wrong, but it sounds like the actual notes the two guitars are playing is something like the following:

When Guitar 1 is plating these four notes: B Bb F# C#     B A# F# C#

then Guitar 2 is playing these four notes: F# C# B Bb      F# C# B A#

 

Is it possible to play either guitar 1 or guitar 2 and get the harmonizer to sound out the other part?

Does the key signature setting on the harmonizer have to change if I drop the standard tuning using a Custom setting in HD Edit?

 

Thanks

Edited July 28, 2015 by CipherHost

[pianoguyy]

The Key of A Major, is also the Key of F# Minor. 

 

As far as the notes ---- 

B Major and F# Major has those notes. 

 

 

And without putting them up on paper to see the staff --- I don't know another key off the top of my head. 

 

But it wouldn't be Bb, it would be A#. 

 

 

 

Harmonizer questions need handled by someone else.

[CipherHost]

Pianoguyy,

 

Thanks for the response. I have corrected my post with regard to the A# error. It looks like I need to learn at least some basic music theory. 

 

I looked at this from the perspective of semitone distance from guitar 1. I came up with this:

 

B to F# = -5 semitones

A# to C# = -9 semitones

F# to B = -7 semitones

C# to Bb = -3 semitones

 

Looking at it this way, maybe the harmonizer isn't going to be able to do that on its own.

[pianoguyy]

Well, yeah, a little theory can't hurt. 

When trying to program a smart harmony, and it asks you for the key and interval --- it helps to know what you need. 

[CipherHost]

Hurghanico,

 

Thanks for your response. I will try recording one over the other for the sake of learning both parts. 

 

It sounds like if one could change the key of the harmonizer on the fly, it could work?  :) 

[CipherHost]

Well, yeah, a little theory can't hurt. 

When trying to program a smart harmony, and it asks you for the key and interval --- it helps to know what you need. 

 

A little learning is a dangerous thing; 

drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: 

there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, 

and drinking largely sobers us again.

(Alexander Pope)

 

If I'm going to drink, I might as well drink to excess.  :)

[eenymason]

I'm trying to get the Smart Harmonizer in my HD500X to work with the dual lead on Run to You by Brian Adams.

 

I know just enough music theory to confuse myself. So if you are going to explain this to me, which I really would appreciate, please do so on the "this guy doesn't have a clue" level. Thanks.

 

This is what I have done so far:

 

I picked out the beginning of the song as I was noodling around starting with the first note of A on the 5th string.

When I went onto youtube to start learning the rest of the song, it sounded like they started with the first note being an F#.

So I went to my trusty Custom tuning option an dropped my new Variax Standard 3 semitones. (produces a little warble when you let 4ths ring for a few seconds, but I don't know if there is a way to fix that)

So now I can play the beginning of the song as though I'm in the key of "I have no friggin clue"

I tried pretty much all the key signatures and choices from the drop down list of Maj, Min, etc. at -3 and I can get close on many of the notes, but not all of them. Now I could be wrong, but it sounds like the actual notes the two guitars are playing is something like the following:

When Guitar 1 is plating these four notes: B Bb F# C#     B A# F# C#

then Guitar 2 is playing these four notes: F# C# B Bb      F# C# B A#

 

Is it possible to play either guitar 1 or guitar 2 and get the harmonizer to sound out the other part?

Does the key signature setting on the harmonizer have to change if I drop the standard tuning using a Custom setting in HD Edit?

 

Thanks

You'll have to set up copies of the patch (4 in total) and set the harmoniser in the first to F#, the second to E and the third to D, with whatever interval you've worked out - I think it'd be -2 or whatever (without having the pod in front of me to check), and switch between the patches to the relevant harmoniser key (already activated within the patch). It's totally do-able, though IMHO, it's a PITA just for 30 seconds of playing time in one song.

 

There IS a way to do this on your own, without the harmoniser.

 

You can check out the video here (

) and observe and learn the sections played individually, between 0:49 and 1:19 - then you put the parts together, and play the parts simultaneously.

 

I play the first section slightly differently to the guy in the video, (otherwise this isn't possible to do all together on your own) - all the notes on the one fret, be it the 11th (F#), 9th (E), or 7th (D) I play with the index finger across the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings, allowing the notes to ring out where they naturally want to, and the hammer on/off with the middle finger. This leaves your ring finger free to do the other hammer on/off parts of the harmony run. It'll feel like a combination of meditation and yoga for a fair while (particularly the frustration and pain parts), but it'll come naturally after a while... :)

It's not always about the gear! I think sometimes gear that has all the bells and whistles can make us a bit lazier than we need to be.

[Palico]

Hmm wonder if you could mix the magnetic pickups on the JTV with an alternate tuning on the JTV to create it?

[pianoguyy]

 

A little learning is a dangerous thing; 

If I'm going to drink, I might as well drink to excess.  :)

 

 

But when you realize that music theory also includes

knowing where you sit in an orchestra pit,

and the reasons why you do it that way ---- 

I don't think you need a Masters. 

[jandrio]

without having the pod/guitar in hand,  i suggest u can do this by DYNAMICALLY changing the key with exp-1/2;

so, when exp1/2 is in min position, assign key=F#
when exp1/2 is in max position, assign key=E.

insert also a pitch glide b4 the harmonizer, with pitch=-2 'n mix=100, initial state=off.

play :
B  A# F# C#  (exp1/2=min, pitch glide=off)
A  G# E  B   (exp1/2=max, pitch glide=off)
A  G# E  B   (exp1/2=max, pitch glide=on)

RELOAD the preset (using corresponding  FS), so u will start from the beginning again.

if u have a JTV, u cld easily replace the pitch glide with alt tuning (change model/tuning with the 5-pos switch).

In all cases, set scale=major 'n shift=-3rd
so u can cover this with only one preset.

try attached test patch.

 

ps

also check out this one (Hotel California harmonies)

http://line6.com/support/topic/11487-how-2-approximate-hotel-california-harmony-with-ur-jtvhd500/

CipherHost Harmony.zip

[CipherHost]

There IS a way to do this on your own, without the harmoniser.

The guy in this video picked out the parts much better than I was able to. Great resource!

 

Hmm wonder if you could mix the magnetic pickups on the JTV with an alternate tuning on the JTV to create it?

This is an interesting idea I did not think of. I just got my Variax Standard and look forward to experimenting with this blending option.

 

no, because in each of the little phrases there are different harmony intervals: 3 thirds and 1 fourth, and the harmonizer can do only 1 type at a time following a given scale/key..

I did not think that idea all the way through. It is more complicated than I was thinking.

 

without having the pod/guitar in hand,  i suggest u can do this by DYNAMICALLY changing the key with exp-1/2;

Thanks for the patch and the link to the Eagles cover. I'll load this up asap!

 

 

Wow! You have provided me with several great options. I will keep them all in my "bag of licks tricks ".

 

Another idea occurred to me while I was reading all your great responses. In the case of this particular song, since guitar 1 plays the same progression twice, I could loop it the first go around, then play the harmony part the second go around. That's if I can tap dance in time.

 

Again, a lot of possibilities with this gear and the innovative ideas from the players on this forum.

 

Thank you very much!

[CipherHost]

But when you realize that music theory also includes

knowing where you sit in an orchestra pit,

and the reasons why you do it that way ---- 

I don't think you need a Masters. 

 

True. I'll have to pick and choose on an as needed basis. I'm finding some decent websites that help. 

[CipherHost]

I like playing both parts of the dual lead at the same time without any harmonizer or pitch glide. I use a pick for the notes of the first single lead part and finger pick the dual lead part. It sounds great and it is a lot easier than I thought it would be. Thanks!!!

 

You'll have to set up copies of the patch (4 in total) and set the harmoniser in the first to F#, the second to E and the third to D, with whatever interval you've worked out - I think it'd be -2 or whatever (without having the pod in front of me to check), and switch between the patches to the relevant harmoniser key (already activated within the patch). It's totally do-able, though IMHO, it's a PITA just for 30 seconds of playing time in one song.

 

There IS a way to do this on your own, without the harmoniser.

 

You can check out the video here (

) and observe and learn the sections played individually, between 0:49 and 1:19 - then you put the parts together, and play the parts simultaneously.

 

I play the first section slightly differently to the guy in the video, (otherwise this isn't possible to do all together on your own) - all the notes on the one fret, be it the 11th (F#), 9th (E), or 7th (D) I play with the index finger across the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings, allowing the notes to ring out where they naturally want to, and the hammer on/off with the middle finger. This leaves your ring finger free to do the other hammer on/off parts of the harmony run. It'll feel like a combination of meditation and yoga for a fair while (particularly the frustration and pain parts), but it'll come naturally after a while... :)

It's not always about the gear! I think sometimes gear that has all the bells and whistles can make us a bit lazier than we need to be.

[Fluffyone]

Anyone have any ideas or opinions on the Boss harmonist pedal? ........or indeed any other brand.   Just wondered if there are any harmoniser pedals out there that have more advanced features to the Pod smart harmony.

[pianoguyy]

Anyone have any ideas or opinions on the Boss harmonist pedal? ........or indeed any other brand.   Just wondered if there are any harmoniser pedals out there that have more advanced features to the Pod smart harmony.

 

There are plenty of units that can do better then the pod. 

Since I do not know EVERY unit on the face of the planet: I am going to assume that they are all dedicated devices who's sole purpose is to do harmony. And they are going to cost as much, if not more, than the pod. 

 

If you have a Pod, and are looking for better --- I would not bother looking at things like Boss and Dod. 

[robertmcollins3]

Just to answer the "key of I have no friggin clue" part - it's in the key of B/G#m (assuming those notes are correct).

 

Edit - but yeah if that A# is supposed to be an A, then the key would be A/F#m like the video says.

[CipherHost]

I started a Coursera class yesterday called "Fundamentals of Music Theory" which I think is going to help a lot. I have watched the first weeks videos and and things are starting to click. It's free!

Just go to coursera.org and type in Fundamentals of Music Theory. It only started Monday so there is plenty of time to jump in.