mgamache Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have an HD500x and have trouble getting patches' volume to be roughly equal. Does the Helix have any facilities to help with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 The only things that are ever gonna help with that are on either side of your head. Most of this problem has to do with how the brain interprets sound. A patch that is EQ'd to be more mid-rangey will seem louder than one that's scooped...even with the same amp model and the volumes set to the same value. Then there's the Fletcher-Munson curves to deal with. If you level all your patches at bedroom volumes, you can't expect the relative levels to remain the same when your melting concrete at stage volume.Doesn't matter how fancy the devices get, you can't get around the biology...not to mention differences from one set of ears to the next. If I'm slightly more deaf than you, having blasted a particular range of frequencies to smithereens over the years, I'll likely perceive the levels differently than you will. Fancy algorithms can only do so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I have an HD500x and have trouble getting patches' volume to be roughly equal. Does the Helix have any facilities to help with that? All over the place. Most effects blocks have level parameters, as do the mixer and output blocks. Helix doesn't, however, have any sort of facility that "auto-levels" presets. Helix's numerous paths and outputs pretty much preclude this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgamache Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 All over the place. Most effects blocks have level parameters, as do the mixer and output blocks. Helix doesn't, however, have any sort of facility that "auto-levels" presets. Helix's numerous paths and outputs pretty much preclude this. To be a little snarky, all those level controls make things worse:) I am not looking for auto-magic leveling, just maybe some metering to see the levels at each point in the signal chain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbenigni Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 To be a little snarky, all those level controls make things worse:) I am not looking for auto-magic leveling, just maybe some metering to see the levels at each point in the signal chain? This was definitely my experience with the Roland GR-55. So many ways to compromise tone with inadequate levels, or to introduce ugly clipping ... which would immediately turn into a needle in a haystack. Yes, metering is always helpful when there are lots of little gain stages to tweak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CipherHost Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 This was definitely my experience with the Roland GR-55. So many ways to compromise tone with inadequate levels, or to introduce ugly clipping ... which would immediately turn into a needle in a haystack. Yes, metering is always helpful when there are lots of little gain stages to tweak. Did you use your GR-55 separately or did you integrate it with a POD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose7822 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 To be a little snarky, all those level controls make things worse:) I am not looking for auto-magic leveling, just maybe some metering to see the levels at each point in the signal chain? Yes to metering at each point of the signal chain. Do we have to IdeaScale it? Or does Line 6 already have some sort of way to tell if there's clipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Yes to metering at each point of the signal chain. Do we have to IdeaScale it? Or does Line 6 already have some sort of way to tell if there's clipping? I want to say there is something like that on ideascale, and I voted for it. It would be nice in some scenarios I can think of personally, even though I will be using it exclusively in the studio with a DAW. At the very least least one on the input(s), and output(s). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbenigni Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Did you use your GR-55 separately or did you integrate it with a POD? Just talking about the GR-55 alone here. There are so many places to set levels within a given patch - most of them necessary, granted, but a few of them a little over the top. For instance, an amp-only preset will have amp volume, amp master, speaker level, mic level, patch level... and that's before you start trying to apply effects or mix in synths. LOTS of ways to get yourself in trouble, and without metering (in contrast with e.g. the VG-99), no tools to help you find your way back out again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosol_d7 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 The only things that are ever gonna help with that are on either side of your head. Most of this problem has to do with how the brain interprets sound. A patch that is EQ'd to be more mid-rangey will seem louder than one that's scooped...even with the same amp model and the volumes set to the same value. Then there's the Fletcher-Munson curves to deal with. If you level all your patches at bedroom volumes, you can't expect the relative levels to remain the same when your melting concrete at stage volume. Doesn't matter how fancy the devices get, you can't get around the biology...not to mention differences from one set of ears to the next. If I'm slightly more deaf than you, having blasted a particular range of frequencies to smithereens over the years, I'll likely perceive the levels differently than you will. Fancy algorithms can only do so much. So it is impossible to put two patches at the same volume as per your message. What if I put my iPhones app db meter in front of the sound? It has been working for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 So it is impossible to put two patches at the same volume as per your message. What if I put my iPhones app db meter in front of the sound? It has been working for me! Ugh...If that's what you got out of my post, I don't know what to tell you. Then again, since I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or not, I'll give you then benefit of the doubt. At no point did I say it was impossible to get two patches at the same volume. What I said was, you need your ears to do it. If you want to use an external dB meter, fine...but even that can be misleading because of the way we perceive different frequency ranges. The meter might read 90dB for two patches, but that doesn't mean that one won't SEEM louder than the other, depending on how they're EQ'd. But either way you choose to go about it, it can only be reliably accomplished after a speaker starts moving air. Expecting the device to level everything internally, before any sound has made its way out into the room, will yield mixed results at best... for all the reasons I've already stated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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