Replicating FOH sounds at home

[DoeWoe]

I've been reading through some of the threads where people are looking for FRFR speakers and such and haven't come across one that quite hits on my question.  I'm running my HD500x straight to the mixer with an XLR and I don't always have the time to go build the patches at the church.  I'm looking for a way to be able to build patches at home that will sound the same once I get to church.  I just purchased a JBL EON612 and it was kind of close, but I think the unit was defective.  I have to send it back and was wondering if I should just replace it or if there are better options.  Keep in mind that the use of the speaker is secondary and would really love for it to be in the $200-$400 range.  I'm still new to Line 6 and would appreciate any opinions you guys might have.  

[gunpointmetal]

You're on the right track by having a decent PA speaker to use at home. The most important thing for me when building my live patches is that I'm doing it at a volume comparable to what I will use live, which for me is SUPER F-IN LOUD! haha. Stuff that sounds full and crisp at talking volume will be muddy and harsh at performance levels. I've heard of some guys that use and EQ with the treble and bass boosted at the end of the chain when building patches at headphone/home listening levels and then removing the EQ for live use as a sort of reverse-fletcher-munson-curve type, approach, but I wouldn't trust it myself.

[pianoguyy]

The truth is --- 

You will never find one system that sounds the same as another system. Every system is different. Especially when you are talking about going from a PA to a small home speaker.

And then, when dealing with churches --- 

1. It is a big empty hall that echoes and has rather large glass windows. That will change the sound as to if that same system was put in a dirty smoky bar.

2. Many churches have the speakers built into the walls, which is a big sound changer.

3. Churches are often lacking funds and therefore do not usually spend big money on proper gear.

 

  

So, the best you can do is what you've already done. Buy a 'flat' system, aka FRFR. 

That is the only thing you can really do. 

[DoeWoe]

Thanks for the advice guys.  I decided to replace the same speaker.  I think it is a nice speaker and I was able to get tones closer to what they actually sound like as opposed to playing through my amp.  I really like the mid to high frequencies in the patches, but it kind of muddied up on the bass with power chords.  Sounds like the best option is to still build them on stage.  I never seem to like the stuff I've made that's over 2 weeks old.  I must just suck at creating them still. 

[DunedinDragon]

The JBL will probably be closer to what your FOH is at church depending on what you're using at church.  I use a Yamaha DXR12 for setting up my patches which gets played through a QSC KLA12's at church.  It's a pretty good match but there are a couple of very important things I've learned about building patches for use on FRFR systems.

 

First is what you've already found about the muddied bass.  FRFR systems are FAR more responsive than any guitar amp in the low frequences.  They're also very good at accurately separating and projecting the mid frequencies and it's the combination of those two things that are different from guitar amps and cause what you refer to as muddiness.  To my ear it doesn't sound muddy as much as just unnatural, because on a guitar amp you'll mostly just hear the bass which tends to cancel most of the mids.  As a rule of thumb on every patch I build I use the deep edit paramaters on the amp model to set the high pass filter up to aroun 100hz or even as high as 125hz.  This gives me a much more crisp sound on my low bass strings.  Not exactly like an amp, but more like a studio recorded and processed guitar which is much cleaner and tighter.  Even with that you'll have to be careful about how much bass you dial in on the patch.  FRFR speakers will make things sound bassy to your ear when compared to traditional amp speakers.  A little bit goes a long way.

 

The same logic applies to treble but it's not as dramatic as the bass.  Most of it you can deal with by dialing the treble back.  I also sometimes use a parametric EQ at the end of my signal chain to reduce the very high end at around 8000 hz and up depending on the amp, cabinet, and microphone.

 

The best advice I can give you is to approach building your patches as if you're building them for a studio recording effort rather than a live performance when using FRFR speakers.  In a studio a lot of time is spent finding where each instrument needs to sit within the mix so as not to interfere with the other instruments and vocals yet stand out in the overall mix clearly.  Sometimes this may not sound as natural to your ear when coming from a traditional amp setup, but it pays off in HUGE benefits to the overall music when played with the rest of the band.  If done correctly you won't need volume in order to stand out in the mix and it makes everything sound much cleaner and tighter.

 

Of all the differences I've noted in dealing with FRFR systems, the most noteable is in the pickups and type of guitar being used.  A strat sounds much more "stratty" and a Les Paul sounds much more "Les Paul-ish" and a Gretsch sounds very "Gretchy".  When coming through a traditional amp I could sometimes dial in more of a Les Paul sound with my Strat than I can now and vice versa.  That results in me being much more careful when selecting the type of guitar I'm going to use on a given song.

 

Finally, the clarity and articulation of an FRFR system is so much better than a traditional amp I've had to adjust my technique on certain types of things.  In essence get rid of the sloppiness, because it won't get covered up.  For example, when I was palm muting on chords I was often not constraining my picking to the two or three key strings I wanted to mute.  It didn't matter so much with an amp, but it stands out clearly on an FRFR setup.  The added benefit however comes in arppegio-style strums of chords.  I find I use them much more often because the articulation is so much clearer than they used to be on an amp.

[AlexKenivel]

Les Paulish, Gretchy.. I love it

[DoeWoe]

Thanks so much DunedinDragon...that's some great advice.