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How to make IR of Acoustic guitar

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Does anyone have experience on making IRs of acoustic guitars ? I really cant get my head around how it is done and what programmes to use.  Can Anyone help me out ? 

Also - If anyone has the IRs from Fishman Aura and is willing to share i would be very happy... Or just any nice IRs - for some reason there are not thousands and thousands of them on the internet ? 

Best 
Magnus

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There are threads on how to create acoustic guitar body impulse responses - Google and you'll find them, including a nice YouTube video. However, you'll need something to process the body and piezo pick response to do anything useful. Bodilizer on Windows might be useful, but it doesn't have any means of exporting an IR that can be loaded into Helix.

 

What I did is get a Fishman Aura Spectrum, then use Logic Pro X's Impulse Response Utility to create impulse responses from the Fishman Aura body images that worked well with my acoustic guitar. I then loaded these IRs into Helix and created some nice acoustic guitar patches (mandolin too).

 

Its a bit of a complicated process and not something that would fit into a forum post. I'll try to create a blog post that walks through the process in a few ways.

 

Ultimately Line6 needs to get into the IR business and provide some acoustic guitar and other body IRs that would really expand the usefulness of Helix. Its great that we have this flexibility. 

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Thank you! 
Actually I tried asking the same question on TGP and i got the exact same answer, but the thing is: I have spent hours and hours on trying to dig up those threads but somehow i cant find them and when i finally find something it is from 2004 and all links are dead - If your can find them, would you please share ? 

 

 

What is it you would describe in your blog post ? - The part with the Aura seems doable as it is same procedure as Reverb-IR, and that i can find guides for, but nothing on Body-IR  :(

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I own a Fishman too. I tried it with Reaper. All i got was a silent ir. There are so many options when creating it I'm not sure what parameters to pick. ie 44.1 48 etc 16 bit 24 bit?

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I'll try to create a blog post that walks through the process in a few ways.

 

 

 Where can we find your blog?

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 Bodilizer on Windows might be useful, but it doesn't have any means of exporting an IR that can be loaded into Helix.

 

Thanks for your links. It should be possible to load the bodylizer-IR on a track in logic and send at sweep trough it and juse Impulse Response Tool to make a .wav-IR, Right ? 

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I couldn't find anything like Bodilizer for Mac. I suppose it would be posslble to capture IRs through Bodilizer, even running on Windows from a Mac, but doing it with the Fishman Aura was simpler and possibly has better body images.

 

it might also be possible to extract an IR out of a Bodilizer file if we knew the file format. Perhaps the developers will where.

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What am I doing wrong? I tried several of the IRs from the link for the Taylor IRs that has been floating around and they all sound awful.  My acoustic sounds infinitely better just going out without an IR and with a bit of compression, delay, and reverb. I have also gotten some acceptable results with the Jazz Rivet amp. Are those Taylor IRs not well produced or am I doing something wrong? Putting an IR in the path makes the sound just terrible! Does anyone have some suggestions or a link to some acoustic IRs that are working well?  Thanks!

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Do you have an amp or speaker model in your signal chain? If so, try bypassing them. A guitar amp generally doesn't work well with acoustic instruments, the tone control voicings for electric guitar aren't really that suitable for acoustic guitar. Electric guitar speakers are even worse since they are very colored, and don't have much high frequency response.

 

If not, then maybe its your guitar pickup. The Fishman Aura body images are created by (more or less) subtracting the impulse response of a under the saddle piece pickup from the body impulse response. Then when you play through the pickup and this modified body, you get the sound of the guitar through just the body. If your guitar doesn't use an under the saddle pickup, then maybe the extracted body image won't fit with your guitar.

 

What are you connecting the Helix output to? It needs to be headphones or a FRFR amp.

 

Finally, different guitars sound better or worse with different body images. The body image created specifically for a guitar might not be the one that sounds best. It takes some experimenting, just like with speaker IRs.

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it might also be possible to extract an IR out of a Bodilizer file if we knew the file format. Perhaps the developers will where.

 

You could just send a sweep through the plugin/effect afterwards... Just as you did with the Aura...

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Do you have an amp or speaker model in your signal chain? If so, try bypassing them. A guitar amp generally doesn't work well with acoustic instruments, the tone control voicings for electric guitar aren't really that suitable for acoustic guitar. Electric guitar speakers are even worse since they are very colored, and don't have much high frequency response.

 

If not, then maybe its your guitar pickup. The Fishman Aura body images are created by (more or less) subtracting the impulse response of a under the saddle piece pickup from the body impulse response. Then when you play through the pickup and this modified body, you get the sound of the guitar through just the body. If your guitar doesn't use an under the saddle pickup, then maybe the extracted body image won't fit with your guitar.

 

What are you connecting the Helix output to? It needs to be headphones or a FRFR amp.

 

Finally, different guitars sound better or worse with different body images. The body image created specifically for a guitar might not be the one that sounds best. It takes some experimenting, just like with speaker IRs.

 

I am using the Taylor IRs with no other speaker/cab. Just can't seem to get a decent sound out of them. Have tried various acoustics and they all sound like crap through the IRs. I don't think it has anything to do with the guitar pickups. Maybe the Taylor IRs are just not for me, they sound thin and seem to accentuate some harsh frequencies, the acoustic sounds better with no amp/cab or through the Jazz Rivet than with the IRs. I do like having the ability to have the chorus, delay, reverb, etc. on tap as well as an easy way to boost the signal for acoustic solos but I am still not getting a great acoustic sound on the Helix. It has been ok and good enough for a ballad or two at my mostly electric gigs but is definitely not "there" yet.  Hoping there will be more decent acoustic presets and IRs out there as time goes by.

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Certainly different body images can make a huge difference. See if you can borrow a Fishman Aura, plug it into the Helix effects loop and experiment with different cabinet models. If you find one you really like, I'll capture it for you.

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HonestOpinion, you didn't say what guitar or pickup you are using. Some acoustic guitars that have Fishman pickups already have body images for that guitar in the electronics. That might be the case for your guitar, and would explain 1) why it sounds good right off the pickup and 2) why adding a second body sounds a lot worse. You wouldn't want the sound of the guitar body (say off a mic) going into another guitar body. Same with a speaker IR going into another speaker IR. 

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Certainly different body images can make a huge difference. See if you can borrow a Fishman Aura, plug it into the Helix effects loop and experiment with different cabinet models. If you find one you really like, I'll capture it for you.

 

Thank you for this kind offer and all of the great advice, very cool of you, I may take you up on your offer some time if I ever get access to or purchase a Fishman Aura!

 

HonestOpinion, you didn't say what guitar or pickup you are using. Some acoustic guitars that have Fishman pickups already have body images for that guitar in the electronics. That might be the case for your guitar, and would explain 1) why it sounds good right off the pickup and 2) why adding a second body sounds a lot worse. You wouldn't want the sound of the guitar body (say off a mic) going into another guitar body. Same with a speaker IR going into another speaker IR. 

 

I agree, using an electric guitar amp/cab with an acoustic does not usually yield great results, the only one I have tried is the Jazz Rivet which actually does not sound bad, just not great. My best results have still been with no amp/cab or IR. I have tried using Taylor acoustic guitars as well as a PRS acoustic, neither of which have pickups that use body images to the best of my knowledge.  I also have done all my experimenting with only an amp/cab, or only one IR. I am not sending one IR into another, nor am I sending an amp/cab into an IR. Have you found an IR you are really happy with, I am curious, what was it?

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Man, how I wish on Variax we could send the raw piezo down the VDI line that normally carrys mags. That way use variax acoustic on one side, and straight piezo with a nice IR on the other!

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Man, how I wish on Variax we could send the raw piezo down the VDI line that normally carrys mags. That way use variax acoustic on one side, and straight piezo with a nice IR on the other!

Me too! My Variax Acoustic 700 would be great with Helix if I could turn off its models and use IR body images as IRs in Helix. I sent in a support request to Line 6 to see if this was possible. The answer was predictably no for these discontinued products. I suggested the open source the software for discontinued products like the Variax 700 Acoustic so we can make these modifications ourselves. Let's see what happens.

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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2015 at 5:48 AM, amsdenj said:

HonestOpinion, you didn't say what guitar or pickup you are using. Some acoustic guitars that have Fishman pickups already have body images for that guitar in the electronics. That might be the case for your guitar, and would explain 1) why it sounds good right off the pickup and 2) why adding a second body sounds a lot worse. You wouldn't want the sound of the guitar body (say off a mic) going into another guitar body. Same with a speaker IR going into another speaker IR. 

 

 

I just purchased a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI for use with my Cordoba Flamenco guitars (Cordoba GK Pro and Pro Negra and 55FCE) and am blown away but the improvement when using the Fishman Loudbox Mini Charge amp (and presumably all Loudbox amps).  These amps had a particularly harsh sound for the piezo pickups in the Cordbobas without the Aura, and the Aura improves things enormously with practically any of the selections in the Nylon bank, but particularly the Cypress/Spruce bottom/top models.  I'm almost convinced it can't get any better.)

 

(An improvement, but not so much, in other amps)

 

These guitars use the Fishman Pro Blend preamp/pickups (set all the way to piezo, no internal mic), so I imagine the body is not included in the electronics, since there is such a difference.  In any case, I am now a BIG believer in the Aura, but would like to get IR's particularly for my models. 

 

The best solution I have found for Helix, Hx Effects is to treat the units as effects in the insert loop of the Aura - I have yet to try this with a DAW, since I am temporarily out of Helix, but the approach worked great with the Hx Effects (and GT-1, and OD-1x, and... and... and...)

 

Guitar -> Aura -> Send -> Helix (guitar in) -> L/Out -> Aura Return -> Aura Out -> FRFR amp (or Fishman Loudbox)

Of course, once you have applied the Aura, you can take the output of the Helix directly to an amp, but the Aura gives you important local control of the Aura master if you want that...).

 

Of course, the output of the Aura (without the loop) can be fed directly to the inputs of the Helix or HxFx….)

 

The Hauser IR from Sigma3 (for a classic guitar) may work with tweaking, but the Hauser does not have a pickup, so I doubt it will be as effective for the Piezo modeling.

 

I can't believe the sound I'm getting now after so many years of desperate struggle....

 

 

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I just set up the following"

 

guitar -> Aura -> GT-1 -> (1/8" in) of iLoud (40W battery power, FRFR), with my Handsonic HPD-20 -> Aux In of the GT-1

Then I can use my backing tracks into the Bluetooth of the iLoud. 

 

Works just great.  If I need vocals, I can go into the Guitar in or even the Aux In) of the Loudbox Mini...

 

Next step is to hook up an FRFR amp like the QSC K8.2 to the DI out of the Loudbox to see how it works when I need more power....

I am ecstatic about the Aura - it is the first acoustic processor that really made a difference for nylon string (Flamenco) for me....

 

Next to try - The Aura at the input of my Amplify 30 for when I have AC power - A30 has great effects, and can carry in the top case of my motorcycle... :)

 

Sheesh!  I GOTTA stop tweaking and get back to scales practice!!!

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