Helix and L2t or L2m

[miurajef]

Hello,

 

I'm about to buy a Helix. For amplification my first plan was to connect it to a (very good) Reussenzehn stereo valve 'guitar slave'  and 2 Marshall cabinets I already own. Geat stuff, but heavy, takes a lot of space, and I'm not getting any younger  ;) .  So I want to go light and compact. Stage Source looks ideal. I would buy 1 unit to start with. Is my assumption correct that if I want to enjoy stereo sound I would need to buy an L2t (as it has 2 separate inputs), or am I mistaken?
I'm aware that 1 unit is probably not gonna give me the great 'stereo spread', so  I will probably buy a second unit which (I presume) could either be a 2t or a 2m.  I then leave the outputs of the helix connected to the first unit, and just connect the second unit with the  L6 link, correct?

 

[SiWatts69]

A single L2m/t cannot give you stereo sound. Your stereo input would be collapsed to mono.

 

From the HELIX manual... (Page 21)

 

L6 LINK Output

Alternatively, the digital XLR connector can be used for L6 LINK output (use of a 110Ω XLR cable is recommended). L6 LINK provides easy digital audio connectivity between Helix and Line 6 StageSource speakers and/or DT-Series amplifiers. Two StageSource speakers or DT amps can also be connected in series via L6 LINK and your stereo Helix signal is intelligently split, with the left channel going to the first StageSource/DT and the right channel to the second. If you have one StageSource/DT connected, the Helix output is collapsed to mono and fed to the StageSource/DT.

 

Connecting an L6 LINK device to Helix automatically disables S/PDIF out and routes audio out the digital XLR connector - no adjustments of the Global Settings > Ins/Outs > Digital Audio or Sample Rate options are necessary.

 

TIP: With an L6 LINK connection to a DT-Series amp, often the Helix Preamp models are a better choice than Amp or Amp+Cab models. Manually configure the analog power amp options on the DT amp for more sonic possibilities!

 

 

 

 

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So, connect your Helix to a stagesource l2m OR l2t via L6Link OUT (on the Helix) to L6Link IN on the L2m/t

Connect a second stagesource l2m OR l2t daisy chained fom the first using the L6Link OUT on l2m/t #1 to L6Link IN on l2m/t #2 and your Helix stereo output will be split L&R across the two L2m/t

 

Thus you technically only need the L2m as your input is L6Link. Sidepanel mixers in this instance would be superfluous

[cruisinon2]

None of the Stagesource speakers are stereo, so one unit will not give you any "stereo spread" at all. If you wanna go that route, you need 2 of 'em, no matter which model you choose.

 

You might wanna look at the new Firehawk 1500 amp...it has some weight to it, but still less than what you're currently lugging around, and it is stereo. Ain't cheap either, but considerably less than a pair of L2T's.

[miurajef]

Thanks a lot. I suppose the  qualification 'bi-amped' had me thinking they could be stereo  :D

[SiWatts69]

Bi amped in this setting simply means that the horn and main 10" driver are seperate

[miurajef]

 

You might wanna look at the new Firehawk 1500 amp...it has some weight to it, but still less than what you're currently lugging around, and it is stereo. Ain't cheap either, but considerably less than a pair of L2T's.

You mean as a stand alone,  or as a way to amplify the Helix? If I understand it correctly, the Firehawk is already packed with a ton of sounds, wouldn't that be overkill? 

[cruisinon2]

You mean as a stand alone, or as a way to amplify the Helix? If I understand it correctly, the Firehawk is already packed with a ton of sounds, wouldn't that be overkill?

L6 demo-ed Helix at NAMM through the Firehawk...it's a viable option. You would be using it for power only, the same way you would slave any other head or combo, because as you've said, daisy-chaining two modelers together is pointless, and almost guaranteed to be a mess.

 

I suggested it because running stereo seems to a priority for you, and buying a pair of L2T's is gonna run you $1500+...whereas the Firehawk is $1K, smaller than your 2 4x12 cabs, and wired to run in stereo.

[miurajef]

L6 demo-ed Helix at NAMM through the Firehawk...it's a viable option. You would be using it for power only, the same way you would slave any other head or combo, because as you've said, daisy-chaining two modelers together is pointless, and almost guaranteed to be a mess.

 

I suggested it because running stereo seems to a priority for you, and buying a pair of L2T's is gonna run you $1500+...whereas the Firehawk is $1K, smaller than your 2 4x12 cabs, and wired to run in stereo.

I see your point, but I would feel slightly uncomfortable having (at least partially) bought 'twice the same stuff' if I were to combine the Firehawk and the Helix, so I'd rather spend more money on 2 L2's, which will also give me a better 'spread'. The other option of course, is to just buy a Firehawk 1500, and then the question is: 'what am I going to miss out on,  compared to the Helix, purely soundwise?'

[litesnsirens]

I think the Helix is going to be superior in the amp and effects models. It's newer tech with higher grade processors.  So you could do either or with it, if you want to just plug your guitar directly into it at home instead of setting you your whole rig you could do that.  If you want to use the Helix and bypass all the onboard processing just plug the outputs of the helix into the stereo effects return of the Firehawk.  What the Firehawk doesn't give you is Line 6 link but you get Bluetooth which could come in handy.  Both are viable options.

[cruisinon2]

I see your point, but I would feel slightly uncomfortable having (at least partially) bought 'twice the same stuff' if I were to combine the Firehawk and the Helix, so I'd rather spend more money on 2 L2's, which will also give me a better 'spread'. The other option of course, is to just buy a Firehawk 1500, and then the question is: 'what am I going to miss out on, compared to the Helix, purely soundwise?'

Or you could think of it this way...if your Helix craps out, the Firehawk is your back-up. While the modeling might not be as robust as Helix, in a pinch it could rescue you from a horrible Spinal Tap moment at a gig.

[miurajef]

Or you could think of it this way...if your Helix craps out, the Firehawk is your back-up. While the modeling might not be as robust as Helix, in a pinch it could rescue you from a horrible Spinal Tap moment at a gig.

Lol, that scenario has crossed my mind too.  I have to give this some serious thought. I'm basically a 'vintage stuff' guy, I now mostly use a '92 Les Paul, a Mesa Boogie head with Marshall cabs and some boutique pedals, to give you an idea. Now all this (new) Line 6 gear, especially the Helix,  sounds so incredibly well, it's compact, light, easy to use,... that I'm really tempted to  plunge myself into that world. I'm even seriously considering to buy a new Variax (the trouble that would save me...)  As said it all sounds great, the only thing that worries me is: reliability  ;)

[silverhead]

... As said it all sounds great, the only thing that worries me is: reliability ;)

Moving from vintage analog to digital gear necessarily involves this risk, and eventual certainty. It's a simple fact that the digital gear will, eventually, fail. It's a computer, after all. The question is how long will it last and, when it fails, be repairable? Aside from the fact that there will always be newer, more powerful, more feature-rich digital stuff being released - the stuff we buy now should last and be repairable for many years and continue to do what it now does.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to get up to ten years from a digital device. That's a very arguable duration, but there is some point beyond which its ongoing use would be a real bonus. And that point is almost certainly less than the much simpler analog stuff. Will you have to replace a Variax guitar before a traditional Les Paul or Strat, or...... Almost certainly. But as the cost of the digital gear continues to decrease, and its utility continues to increase, the cost/benefit equation increasingly favours the digital stuff imho. You may have to replace a Helix in 10 years or less, while your old vintage Fender Deluxe carries on - but Helix provides you with so much more than the Fender Deluxe, at much less cost/space than having the analog arsenal.

[cruisinon2]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to get up to ten years from a digital device. That's a very arguable duration, but there is some point beyond which its ongoing use would be a real bonus. And that point is almost certainly less than the much simpler analog stuff. Will you have to replace a Variax guitar before a traditional Les Paul or Strat, or...... Almost certainly. But as the cost of the digital gear continues to decrease, and its utility continues to increase, the cost/benefit equation increasingly favours the digital stuff imho. You may have to replace a Helix in 10 years or less, while your old vintage Fender Deluxe carries on - but Helix provides you with so much more than the Fender Deluxe, at much less cost/space than having the analog arsenal.

I get bored with stuff long before 10 years goes by anyway...and even if I didn't, the pace at which this stuff keeps improving makes me want to upgrade sooner. 3 or 4 years, and I'm moving on anyway...generally keeping the most recent thing as a backup, unloading whatever I had as the previous back-up. Round and round we go, stimulating the economy...;)

[miurajef]

I could live with the awareness that certain gear will start letting me down occasionally, say, after 5,6 years, and that 5 years later it will be completely written off.  But let's say I climb on stage next month, with all my new Line 6 gear, how relaxed am I going to be?  :) If I have to haul my analogue gear as part of a contingency plan, I will be missing the whole point of making the shift in the first place.

[silverhead]

I could live with the awareness that certain gear will start letting me down occasionally, say, after 5,6 years, and that 5 years later it will be completely written off.  But let's say I climb on stage next month, with all my new Line 6 gear, how relaxed am I going to be?  :) If I have to haul my analogue gear as part of a contingency plan, I will be missing the whole point of making the shift in the first place.

Sorry - I don't think anyone can help you with that. At some point you either jump off the cliff or you don't. :lol:

 

Do you haul two sets of analogue gear now, in case something in the first set fails? If not, how relaxed were you the first time out with you non-gig-tested analogue gear? Same situation, really. Once you get used to the new gear you will be relaxed with it. Of course, someone gigging professionally should always have backup gear, whether analogue or digital.

[litesnsirens]

Personally I think there is way less risk with the digital vs analog gear.  You get to the gig and forgot to buy spare tubes.  Or you're in the middle of a set with your analog pedals all chained together with the little 6" cables and one of those cables decides to cack out on you.  Hmmm Which cable is it?  Guess I'm going straight to my amp with no solo tone for the rest of the set.  Both have happened to me and in fact after the cable incident I went digital.  It started with just the effects all in one box but now I'm not even using an amp, just direct to board.  And I've never been happier with my tones.  That's after more than 35 years of analog pedals and tube amps.  It's just quicker easier, and I find more reliable.  If a tube goes, rebooting your amp won't help it.  With a digital modeller, 90% of the time it actually will.

[miurajef]

You both make good points. It's just that my analogue gear has never (literally) failed me (I must add I'm quite disciplined as far as maintenance is concerned). You're probably right, maybe I should just jump and see what happens :P  Maybe in a year or so Ill have the same amount of trust in the digital stuff as I have now in my old gear. In each case: thanks a lot for the replies!

[cruisinon2]

You both make good points. It's just that my analogue gear has never (literally) failed me (I must add I'm quite disciplined as far as maintenance is concerned). You're probably right, maybe I should just jump and see what happens...

I wish I could say analog stuff never failed me...I once had a tube power amp fail at sound-check. Thing actually started smoking, lol. Oops, now what? Point is, anything can die on you, and it will probably be mighty inconvenient when it does. When was the last time you got a flat tire in your driveway instead of on a 12% grade, in a driving rain? ;)

 

Most of the time though, stuff works as it should. My 500X and L2T is the smallest rig I've ever had. My back and I are on speaking terms again.

[miurajef]

Update. I just bought a brand new Variax JTV 89 (the electric sounds are amazingly good, as is the analog guitar as such) , and ordered a Helix.  When I asked about the Firehawk 1500 the guy at the store said he hadn't tried it yet, but he was very skeptical about 'Line 6's ability to build guitar speakers'   :)  To be continued.

[cruisinon2]

When I asked about the Firehawk 1500 the guy at the store said he hadn't tried it yet, but he was very skeptical about 'Line 6's ability to build guitar speakers' :) To be continued.

Lmfao...and I'm skeptical about that guy's ability to count past 10 without taking off his shoes.

 

"Skeptical about their ability" to build the decades old tech that is the guitar speaker...can't make this stuff up. Music store gear jockeys are hysterical.

[litesnsirens]

Geez, some of these guys should have their licences to sell gear revoked.  To expand on my set up above, from the mixer I'm going to Lin6 speakers L3t (x2) and L3s (x2).  I played my modelling setup through Bose L1 speakers in the past and it sounded great and I've run it through various other brands when using a house system.  But through these Line 6 speakers it's better than anything else I've tried, it's the most organic sound and coming from a modelling device, it's really hard to believe.  I would recommend their tech/speakers as the compliment to your modelling gear whether you are using Line 6 modelling or not.  Now I can't speak to the Firehawk 1500 directly, but if it stacks up against the L series PA speakers it's gonna kick butt in this department.

[miurajef]

Lmfao...and I'm skeptical about that guy's ability to count past 10 without taking off his shoes.

 

"Skeptical about their ability" to build the decades old tech that is the guitar speaker...can't make this stuff up. Music store gear jockeys are hysterical.

 

Lol, I've heard the guy contradict himself twice within a 3 week span, needless to say I take his 'observations' with a bag of salt. 

[miurajef]

Geez, some of these guys should have their licences to sell gear revoked.  To expand on my set up above, from the mixer I'm going to Lin6 speakers L3t (x2) and L3s (x2).  I played my modelling setup through Bose L1 speakers in the past and it sounded great and I've run it through various other brands when using a house system.  But through these Line 6 speakers it's better than anything else I've tried, it's the most organic sound and coming from a modelling device, it's really hard to believe.  I would recommend their tech/speakers as the compliment to your modelling gear whether you are using Line 6 modelling or not.  Now I can't speak to the Firehawk 1500 directly, but if it stacks up against the L series PA speakers it's gonna kick butt in this department.

 

I'm sure your setup must sound amazing. My first impulse is also to go for the powered speakers, but I do want to get a chance to try out the Firehawk. There's the appeal of 'still having a  combo around', plus  this 6 way speaker set up has a certain ring to it. I'm very curious about clarity and 'projection' (Marshall cabs for instance are not exactly outstanding in that department). I plan on going directly into the FOH console from the Helix, but I stll want to know if it (the Firehawk) can make  a heavily processed sound audible in most or all of it's nuances, without having to blow  the roof off, so to speak   ;)

[miurajef]

I got my Helix today. After one hour of playing 9 of the leds started flickering, and then went blank, 4 of them are showing the wrong message (for instance FS 4 now says 'tuner').

I still have audio.

Not a very promising start I must say.  :angry:

[silverhead]

Have you updated to the latest firmware end editor?

[miurajef]

Have you updated to the latest firmware end editor?

I came with 1.04.3 firmware, need I update something, and how?

[silverhead]

Go to the downloads area of this website, here:

 

http://line6.com/software/

 

Select Helix in the Software field and check the Beta box to the right of the selections. This will let you download the installer file for the Helix Editor application, as well as required driver and the Line 6 Updater program. After installing all components, connect your Helix device to the computer via usb and run the Line 6 updater program. This will help you install the latest firmware on the Helix device.

 

If problems persist please start a new thread to describe the symptoms.

[miurajef]

Ok, I went for the Firehawk 1500.  The stereo imaging, and wet-dry-wet effect are not exactly overwhelming, but that was to be expected as it is relatively compact, and the speakers are really close to each other.  I'm quite happy with the way it amplifies the Helix: neutral and powerful. It's really FRFR :) The on board sounds are rather poor compared to the Helix, which is actually quite a relief :)