is it possible? that Alt tune with Mag pickup.

[leemh]

I look through manuals but couldnt find it.

 

can I use alter tune with my physical mag picpups?

[cruisinon2]

No.

[leemh]

No.

Sad.. but true

[Charlie_Watt]

Alt tune requires separate pickups for each string.  Mags are not.

[clay-man]

The whole reason alt tuning is possible is because of the separate piezo stings. You cannot tell a processor to weed out each note and pitch it accordingly, because a processor doesn't know which note belongs to which string, because many of the strings can play the exact same note.

 

With 6 piezo pickups, it splits each string to it's own channel, allowing it to be fed through 6 pitch shifters, one per string, which is how the alternate tuning works.

[tomwhitworth]

I thought I heard it said somewhere that the models and the mags could be mixed. What could I have misunderstood there?

 

EDIT: I see where I got the wrong idea. I believe "leemh" was asking if the alt tuning could be applied to the mag pups - I took it as if he was asking about mixing the two. My bad.

Edited July 24, 2016 by tomwhitworth

[silverhead]

I thought I heard it said somewhere that the models and the mags could be mixed. What could I have misunderstood there?

No misunderstanding. They can be mixed, either using Workbench HD to mix them in a single model, or using a dual-path VDI-equipped Line 6 processor like POD HD500x or Helix. In the former case you download the model from Workbench into the Variax guitar and then select it like any other model. In the latter case you select Variax as the input to one path and Variax Mags as the input to the other.

 

But that's quite separate from the topic of this thread. You'll get a very dissonant sound if you mix an alt-tuned model with the unalt-tuned mags.

[tomwhitworth]

Thanks Silverhead - I thought I had that right. Getting old is supposed to make you forget things not necessarily get new things wrong! You may or may not recognize me from some of the JTV and HELIX threads but I have done my due diligence on both. I have made my purchases (with some confidence thanks to you and several others), added a QSC K12 to the mix and the UPS truck is at my door as I'm writing this post. Time to quit talking and do it! One of the first things I wanted to do was experiment with mixing the mags and the models in a wet/dry/wet-alt tuning, stereo combination. I will have to do some homework on an alt tuning that will harmonize with the dry tuning. And of course that is also a subject for another thread. Thanks to everyone for their contributions to the forums. Bye for now - off on a new journey, TW

[clay-man]

Just remember, MAGS = REGULAR GUITAR.

REGULAR GUITAR = NO PROCESSING

ALT TUNING/ PITCH SHIFTING = PROCESSING

 

the whole point of the magnetic pickups was to have a bare-normal guitar side to the Variax, which means, if you have a 69, it's a Strat, if you have a 59, it's a Les Paul, if you have a 89, you have a super strat.

 

Now, would it be cool to have a pitch shifter on the magnetics? Totally. Would it ruin the point of not needing a battery to use the magnetics? Yes. Could there have been some kind of way for them to feed the mags through a processor while the battery was in? Yes, but you need to ask yourself, why do that, when the whole point of the Variax side is to do that for you? If you want the Variax futures, use the Variax side.

[tomwhitworth]

Just remember, MAGS = REGULAR GUITAR.

REGULAR GUITAR = NO PROCESSING

ALT TUNING/ PITCH SHIFTING = PROCESSING

 

the whole point of the magnetic pickups was to have a bare-normal guitar side to the Variax, which means, if you have a 69, it's a Strat, if you have a 59, it's a Les Paul, if you have a 89, you have a super strat.

 

Now, would it be cool to have a pitch shifter on the magnetics? Totally. Would it ruin the point of not needing a battery to use the magnetics? Yes. Could there have been some kind of way for them to feed the mags through a processor while the battery was in? Yes, but you need to ask yourself, why do that, when the whole point of the Variax side is to do that for you? If you want the Variax futures, use the Variax side.

 

To me the point is that I can mix the mag's with the JTV features at any value I choose via the Helix board.

[clay-man]

You have to remember that alt tuning on the modeling is basically 6 pitch shifters on each string. If you did a mix between mags and modeling, ultimately you'd have 7 pitch shifters, or actually, if you used a 12 string, I believe you'd have 13 pitch shifers. Imagine that, running 13 pitch shifters and 6 modeling algorithms. That's a crap load of processing.

 

I say that, because i still needs separate pitch shifters to duplicate each string into an octave higher pitch, or/and whatever you have the cent put at, and then when you add alt tuning, it has to pitch shift the processed strings again, and then, somewhere within the process, whether before the pitch shifting and after, it has to do the modeling process.

 

Also, it's impossible to do an alt tuning that's not in some kind of standard tuning (E, D, C, whatever as long as it's something standard), because you cannot separate the magnetics into 6 channels, obviously.

 

 

If you're plugging your guitar into a helix, just use a pitch shifter module on your mags. Sucks? Maybe. But you need to use an external pitch shifter for the mags.

[tomwhitworth]

Just remember, MAGS = REGULAR GUITAR.

REGULAR GUITAR = NO PROCESSING

ALT TUNING/ PITCH SHIFTING = PROCESSING

 

the whole point of the magnetic pickups was to have a bare-normal guitar side to the Variax, which means, if you have a 69, it's a Strat, if you have a 59, it's a Les Paul, if you have a 89, you have a super strat.

 

 

 

Are you saying that when the signals from the piezo pups (processed) and the mag pups (unprocessed) are mixed by the Helilx an unprocessed signal cannot be achieved from the mag pick ups? 

[Charlie_Watt]

Mag pickups are always unprocessed coming from the Variax.

[tomwhitworth]

You have to remember that alt tuning on the modeling is basically 6 pitch shifters on each string. If you did a mix between mags and modeling, ultimately you'd have 7 pitch shifters, or actually, if you used a 12 string, I believe you'd have 13 pitch shifers. Imagine that, running 13 pitch shifters and 6 modeling algorithms. That's a crap load of processing.

 

I say that, because i still needs separate pitch shifters to duplicate each string into an octave higher pitch, or/and whatever you have the cent put at, and then when you add alt tuning, it has to pitch shift the processed strings again, and then, somewhere within the process, whether before the pitch shifting and after, it has to do the modeling process.

 

Also, it's impossible to do an alt tuning that's not in some kind of standard tuning (E, D, C, whatever as long as it's something standard), because you cannot separate the magnetics into 6 channels, obviously.

 

 

If you're plugging your guitar into a helix, just use a pitch shifter module on your mags. Sucks? Maybe. But you need to use an external pitch shifter for the mags.

 

Clayman, thanks for your input but I guess I don't know what you are trying to say about my use of the mags and piezo pick ups being blended together? I wasn't thinking of synthesizing any of the signal from the mags. I now have both the Helix and the JTV 69s in my possession, I'm happy to say, so I better just dig in and figure this stuff out. I know I'm not done with this forum. There are great topics here and great discussions to go with them. I hope to get to the point where I can offer info instead of just being an inquisitor.

[davidb7170]

You can make the Helix blend the model and mags by splitting the inputs and either keep them on separate paths or merging the paths, then set the mix either with gain blocks or merge gains. Different ways of achieving the same outcome...

 

Dave

[clay-man]

Again, whole point of modeling is to have all of those features, and mags are meant to work as a regular guitar.

 

Blending mags is just mixing the mags signal with the modeling, but you have to have modeling engaged.