ColonelForbin Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 So, I have been spending some time the last few weeks overhauling my 'regular' pedalboard, but just recently had a cool 'brain spark' and brought Helix back into the mix in a very cool and satifying usage, a bit off the usual trail. I've been running the pedalboard through my Friedman 1x12 combo (50 watt Runt), and attenuating/reamping it with the Fryette powerstation (v2). After going through exhaustive pedal placement last weekend and this weekend; lots of time moving pedals around, adding power supplies, and correcting cable troubles (good old George L's!) it occured to me to do the following: -Run the XLR out from the Fryette into the Helix; send the mic input to both paths, and run them through different / multiple IR's! I started by messing with adding some reverb, delay, post IR in Helix, but have kept that minimal thus far. Needless to say, the combination is potent! You can run two 2048 sample IR's, or FOUR 1024 IR's! I started with the four setup, but gravitated back to the two IR preset. Going to try running it through the HX cabs next.. Might have to try dual double HX cabs! Anyway, super cool - I realize Helix can do a whole lot more than it's doing in this situation, but as it is being used now, allows me to record several different tracks: -USB7 dry guitar (send extra 1/4" off the wireless (G70) receiver to Helix guitar in -USB8 XLR dry (from Fryette, power amp, no cab model or IR) -USB 1/2: IR1 stereo with HX delay and reverb -USB 3: IR1 with no HX FX panned left -USB 4: IR2 with no HX FX panned right -USB 5/6: IR2 stereo with HX delay and reverb I've got my M9 mounted to a pedaltrain jr. board with two Mission expression pedals; that is my FX loop board for the amp. I haven't tried running it in the FX loop of the Fryette vs the Friedman, but really still a fantastic workhorse of a pedal modeler! Love the M9, it still holds it own, long after it's release. Anyway, attempting to record the IR signals without monitoring them; still working out how to do that. I can monitor IR 1 'stereo' (with HX FX) going to USB 1/2 by choosing "multi" which is actually quite effective. Also, since you can change the IR slot # using snapshots, you can set up several different pairs of IR's. Been using the Justin York Ownhammer pack, the Fremen IR's also sound amazing in this rig, and messing with some 3Sigma. Tempted to check out some of the new Ownhammer Marshall IR's that came out recently! Anyway, in conclusion (I tend to go on a bit :)) this is a stellar way to use Helix to capture tube amp + pedalboards, paired with the Fryette. Can be silent recording - you can just monitor the Helix / IR signal with no sound going to the amp speaker, or you can listen to both - which sounds quite nice! Also, I paired up my 8ohm DT25 1x12 cab with this set for a while, and that sounded killer too! I must admit; the Friedman shares a very similar aesthetic to the DT25 cab!! The ohms are mismatched, so not an ideal pairing. The Friedman uses a 16ohm speaker; so I ran the Friedman power amp at 16 ohms, and the Fryette speaker out at 4ohms. Google tells me that pairing a 16 ohm cab with an 8 ohm cab in parallel yields approx 5.6 ohms; and you would want to choose the ohm setting that is less than or equal to that digit. Typically it's more straight forward; with the DT25 + DT25 cab, they are both 8 ohm, so both get equal volume. With the 16 ohm + 8 ohm speaker pair, the 8 ohm cab apparently pulls about 2/3 of the power, leaving the 16 ohm cab with a little less, but they sure sound nice together! Sizing isn't matched so they won't stack; but they rock hard side by side! All right, back to previously scheduled guitar playin' already in progress... :) p.s. photos! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Wow, creative setup! Bet it's lots of fun too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellM5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Man, that had to be more fun than playing with Legos. Pretty cool actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Well done man, I love this stuff! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Hey CF...I lust after the Fryette PS-2 and that is some serious gear porn. By chance, have you tried Helix full amp models>PS2>DT25 cab yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 Hey CF...I lust after the Fryette PS-2 and that is some serious gear porn. By chance, have you tried Helix full amp models>PS2>DT25 cab yet? No but I will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 No but I will! Cool thanks! My working theory is that the Fryette PS2 is the best possible sound for Helix (full amp models, no cab models) into a real guitar speaker cab. I really need to unload some gear before I buy one though and would like to have a little confidence. I always value your opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I must admit; the Friedman shares a very similar aesthetic to the DT25 cab!! Oh man...you are right! I bet my DT50 head would look GREAT on a Friedman 212! I love V30's. I never liked DT50 open back combos and the DT 412 is too big. My Mesa Recto is well, a recto. Studiocat's Friedman 212 IR's he posted here are great. Hmm... And man, if Line 6 models some Friedman amps (BE-100, Jerry Cantrell, Phil X Sig, etc.), the DT50 topo,class, etc. and EL34 tubes should be a perfect match. The Friedman amps are all about the EL34's. That would be a GREAT faux-Friedman setup! I wonder if there is any sort of universe destruction risk of mixing Bogner and Friedman ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Cool thanks! My working theory is that the Fryette PS2 is the best possible sound for Helix (full amp models, no cab models) into a real guitar speaker cab. I really need to unload some gear before I buy one though and would like to have a little confidence. I always value your opinions. Going to work more on this today; but just did a quick test running Helix > PS2, played through a few of Glenn's last artists preset patches; and sounds stellar! Makes me want to get some bigger cabs and see what the PS2 can really do - but I think you are definitely on the right track with this idea! Got sidetracked yesterday dealing with a microphonic tube in the Friedman. Wishing Glenn's new 'boutique' amp sim patches were dropping today! :) cheers! edit...dang, my local GC has a beat up cheap Marshall 4x12 cab (VS412, particle board) for $130... Just what I need right?? :) edit2..yeah maybe not on the Marshall cab; not good reviews even just doing a basic search.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 I am going to try a wet/dry/wet thing with this! Guessing I start with a mono 1/4" send after amp/cab (sounded bad with cab model off) before the post fx; and then run the main outs via L6link in stereo to the L3m pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Cool thanks! My working theory is that the Fryette PS2 is the best possible sound for Helix (full amp models, no cab models) into a real guitar speaker cab. I really need to unload some gear before I buy one though and would like to have a little confidence. I always value your opinions. All, right so I got a bit distracted, missed that you were originally saying 'no cab models'... I will have to do some more proper testing, but thus far, turning off the cab models did NOT sound good; but running full amp+cab / IR presets into it does sound good! Go figure.. I also finally just got around to doing a wet/dry/wet Helix-PS2 patch. WAY COOl!!!!!!!!! Basically just re-worked Glenn's 'Eagles' patch, which I had already been editing previosly; swapped out the HX cab for Fremen IR and it really sounds stellar! I ended up having to remove a mod effect to make it all fit, but it worked well enough, and in the process realized an odd frustrating quirk of how the PS2 works: The PS2 has an XLR out and a 1/4" line out. HOWEVER - those do NOT pass through any signal plugged into the FX return OR the line input. Those outputs ONLY send signal that is connected to the PS2 'amp' input. From the manual: 2. LINE OUT – This is a frequency compensated output that takes the signal from the load amplifier’s speaker output plugged into the Power Station Amp In jack and makes it available to drive any external device I was thinking I would be able to run the 1/4" send from Helix post amp model and IR, pre-wet FX - and that worked fine. However, then when I tried running the XLR or 1/4" back from PS2 to Helix to record the 'dry' amp send, that's when I realized that nothing was going back to Helix... I re-read the PS2 manual, and indeed those outputs are only going to send signal when you have something plugged into the AMP in on the PS2.. A minor setback; ended up just re-working the preset a little more to split path 2 after the amp and IR into path 2B, dropped in a mono send, then sent that path on to USB3/4. It recorded fine; but actually sounded a lot better in the room than the direct recording, so might need to tweak it a bit more. But, in doing a quick and on the fly setup, it certainly works! I've got the PS2 going to my 1x12 DT cab, and the Helix main out going L6Link to a pair of L3m. I pumped up some software drums, and cranked it up - way cool! Digging the wet/dry/wet stuff, though it does add a level of complexity.. Will report back if I make any more progress; so far so good! :) EDIT - I may have solved the weird recording sound problem; I still had a 1/4" cable connected to Helix AUX in, but not plugged into anything else, and the input on the patch is set to multi.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I think there are some guidelines on the ps2 presence and depth controls for flat response. I want to say fully counter clockwis for both, but I can't find the manual online. But anyway, thank you so much for trying and reporting back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 I think there are some guidelines on the ps2 presence and depth controls for flat response. I want to say fully counter clockwise for both, but I can't find the manual online. But anyway, thank you so much for trying and reporting back! Yes; I had the toggle switches set to flat, and the prescence and depth off (full counterclockwise) The online manual is still for the original PS, they haven't updated it for the PS2 yet. I am going to start simple and build a really basic patch with minimal stuff to test full amp model with no cab to the PS2, see if I can get that idea sounding good- off work tomorrow so I can stay up a bit tonight and keep messing with this after the Giants Packers game! Here is the old PS (rev1) manual: http://www.fryette.com/content/Power_Station_Manual_Eng_Rev1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Helix (full amp models, no cab models) into a real guitar speaker cab. Ok, now I am hearing some good things! Just made a simple/ basic patch; full amp model (plexi bright) > send 1 to PS2 Definitely sounds just fine; I've just gotten so used to hearing the Helix 'amp+cab' thing that it's a nice change of tone to get that Helix 'amp in room' sound. I think that was a strong point of the HD500-DT pairing. Glad you suggested this idea, thanks! Revisiting the wet-dry-wet thing; just added sends to a couple of the Fremen Pink Floyd presets; post amp model before the IR blocks; still sounding good! Those are good presets to test this with since the wet portion of those presets is so obvious; really nice to hear the 1x12 cab sounding like 'amp in room' with the reverbs and delays and such coming through the L3m speakers.. It makes me think; what other 'neutral' tube power amps are out there? If someone only wanted to amplify their Helix or modeler and didn't need the speaker load portion of the PS2? This definitely opens up some really cool options to explore :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Helix really does allow you to take an idea and just run with it! I pulled back up a Fremen Pink Floyd patch, put send 3 before the amp model, sent that to my Friedman (guitar in); and left send 1 (post amp model / pre wet FX) routed to the PS2 to the DT25 cab. I set the Friedman and DT25 cab next to each other; with the wet FX coming through the L3 behind them, it just sounds glorious!! Dual dry amps + stereo wet. Pretty much total overkill. LOVE IT! Way too late to crank it up properly, but going to leave it all wired up so I can revisit this in the morning. And on that note, just checked my email and realized that Scott (Helix Channel) sent out the link to the new classic rock preset package about an hour ago. Guess it's time to ROCK ON!!! Cheers! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Ok, now I am hearing some good things! Just made a simple/ basic patch; full amp model (plexi bright) > send 1 to PS2 Definitely sounds just fine; I've just gotten so used to hearing the Helix 'amp+cab' thing that it's a nice change of tone to get that Helix 'amp in room' sound. I think that was a strong point of the HD500-DT pairing. Glad you suggested this idea, thanks! It makes me think; what other 'neutral' tube power amps are out there? If someone only wanted to amplify their Helix or modeler and didn't need the speaker load portion of the PS2? This definitely opens up some really cool options to explore :) I currently use the 100w 6l6 L6 spider valve HD100 MKii and believe it to be neutral as well, along the same lines as the Fryette PS2. It was intended to be used with full amp models, whether internal spider models or POD X3. Of course Helix is orders of magnitude better :) My DT50 is definitely NOT neutral. Nor are any of my Mesa amps power sections. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 I currently use the 100w 6l6 L6 spider valve HD100 MKii and believe it to be neutral as well, along the same lines as the Fryette PS2. It was intended to be used with full amp models, whether internal spider models or POD X3. Of course Helix is orders of magnitude better :) My DT50 is definitely NOT neutral. Nor are any of my Mesa amps power sections. Yeah, same for my DT25; the EL84 tubes impart alot of their own tonal signature. Ditto for my Friedman, except that it's EL34. I'm guessing 6L6 platforms are typically more 'neutral' in that sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Yeah, same for my DT25; the EL84 tubes impart alot of their own tonal signature. Ditto for my Friedman, except that it's EL34. I'm guessing 6L6 platforms are typically more 'neutral' in that sense? I really think neutrality is the design intent of the PS2 and Spider Valve, and not just the nature of 6L6 tubes in general. My Mesa Recto, Mark V, Simul 290, and Bass 400+ are all 6L6 but none of them are nearly as neutral as Spider Valve. Helix through SV into my Mesa 212 is as neutral as playing Helix through my solid state amp, but with better feel and response. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fremen Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Helix really does allow you to take an idea and just run with it! I pulled back up a Fremen Pink Floyd patch, put send 3 before the amp model, sent that to my Friedman (guitar in); and left send 1 (post amp model / pre wet FX) routed to the PS2 to the DT25 cab. I set the Friedman and DT25 cab next to each other; with the wet FX coming through the L3 behind them, it just sounds glorious!! Dual dry amps + stereo wet. Pretty much total overkill. LOVE IT! Way too late to crank it up properly, but going to leave it all wired up so I can revisit this in the morning. And on that note, just checked my email and realized that Scott (Helix Channel) sent out the link to the new classic rock preset package about an hour ago. Guess it's time to ROCK ON!!! Cheers! :) I would love to see a video of this :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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