jman64 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 So today while working on the sound of my 4 cable Helix patches with my tube amp, I came across a glitch I can't explain. I noticed playing that the C note on the 13th fret of my B string was sounding dead. At first I thought I had a fret issue. However I noticed if I did a bend on that note, as soon as the pitch went up a half step the note would start to ring out correctly. Seemed odd, so I experimented more. The same note on different strings ( 17th fret on G, and 8th on E) also was dead. Again as soon as I bent the note it would start to ring out normally. Every other note all over the fret board played fine. I changed to a different patch, and the C note in question rang out normally in all the same positions. Switched back to the original patch, and the C was dead again. Made a new patch from scratch, and the C note was fine. Went back to the original patch and the C was dead. This really has me scratching my head. I played the guitar straight into my amp,and the note played fine, and I don't find the string to bottom out on any of the frets. Has anyone seen anything like this before? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorbeats Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 What's the frequency of a C note? 261.63 hz? I would check any eq blocks in the patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman64 Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I only have one EQ block in that patch, that's mainly what I use in conjunction with my lead boost. It has a little mid range bump at 735hz, but it's not doing anything around 261.63. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I only have one EQ block in that patch, that's mainly what I use in conjunction with my lead boost. It has a little mid range bump at 735hz, but it's not doing anything around 261.63. Jay Wonder if this could have anything to do with phase inversion, two signals out of phase with each other. Two out of phase signals can cancel each other out and cause a deadening effect or even total silence if they are perfectly out of phase, don't know why it would only happen at one pitch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joepeggio Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Comb filtering somewhere? turn off/on blocks one at a time to see if one is the issue. Interesting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Have you considered adjusting the pickup heights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman64 Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Have you considered adjusting the pickup heights? If it was happening consistently across patches, and directly into my amp I would consider that. For the record I tested it with a different guitar, and the result was the same. The patch is a 4cable setup, so by default I have a noise gate, slapback (Transistor Tape) delay, and a reverb on. It happens in this default state. I'll spend some time tonight seeing if one of the blocks effect it when enabled or bypassed. As I mentioned it only happens in this one patch, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 As I mentioned it only happens in this one patch, Wow, that is really odd. Maybe try changing the selected effect or model in each block and then change it back and see what happens. Using the looper might be helpful for this test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 What are the components and settings in the patch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 The logical first step is to remove the Helix from the 4CM arrangement into a direct amp setup and see if it persists. A quick way would be headsets, but that is most likely not a good indication that it's on in the Helix output signal path. If it persists that would focus you on the Helix. If not, the problem lies (most likely) in the 4CM setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman64 Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 The logical first step is to remove the Helix from the 4CM arrangement into a direct amp setup and see if it persists. A quick way would be headsets, but that is most likely not a good indication that it's on in the Helix output signal path. If it persists that would focus you on the Helix. If not, the problem lies (most likely) in the 4CM setup. I plugged the guitar straight into my amp, and there was no problem. I basically rebuilt the original patch from the ground up, block by block in a new patch, and there is no problem. However if I try the original patch the problem is there. Can a patch get corrupted? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 ... Can a patch get corrupted? Jay Only if the temptation is too great and the patch starts with a weak ethical foundation... ;) Seriously though I think the answer is probably that it is rare but does happen. Firmware/software can also get corrupted or not install properly. Certain older presets may occasionally have issues in later firmware versions. Most likely though I think a buried parameter somewhere gets changed unknown to the user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman64 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 So I figured out the problem, not sure exactly what the issue was, but likely some phase cancellation on that one note. I had the patch set up with a 2nd FX loop ( FX send &Return 3) that was branched out to the right channel. On it I had my BBE Sonic Stomp pedal. So it was only doing it's sonic "maximizing" on the right channel. When I moved this FX block to cover both left and right channels the note rang out correctly again. So I have learned that setup doesn't work!!! Live and learn. Jay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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