Mod and Pitch boot up sounds when switching between snapshots

[PiFromBRC]

Hi everybody.  I hope all enjoyed some combination of their holidays, their time off work, and/or burying 2016.

 

I've built a preset-per-song bank all based on the same FX chain with minor tweaks between the presets.  All three are loaded with various snapshots.  On most of the snapshots I have the pitch wham set to mix on EP 2 for a feedback cheat and on any given snapshot I have a chorus modulator with various parameter tweaks either active or bypassed. When I switch between snapshots which (e.g.) have the chorus bypassed and one that doesn't, I get a harsh chorus sound at the moment I switch.  Same thing only with a harsh pitch sound with the pitch wham.  The pitch mix is the only parameter assigned to an expression pedal, and the default heel is set to 0.  Chorus is just either active or inactive and is not assigned to an EP.

 

What gives?  Any ideas?

[phil_m]

If you have extreme differences in values for parameter changes, there can be artifacts when switching between snapshots. I can't say I've experienced this, but this has come up other places. I think some people have had some success in making the artifacts not as noticeable by messing with the order in which they assign the controllers, but I'm not sure.

[jbuhajla]

When you say "scene" do you mean preset? It is happening when you switch between presets, or are you using snapshots?

[gunpointmetal]

He's referring to the glitches in some of the settings when your change Snapshots. If you're chorus paramters aren't exactly the same between Snapshots, you'll get it, same with the Pitch, Delay, Reverb....pretty much everything that isn't a gain-based effect. Kinda sucks, but I'm not sure how they're gonna be able to deal with it.I've turned all trails off on my snapshot presets to avoid the glitches, but then I don't get the cool reverb/delays trailing out when I come into a riff....

[jbuhajla]

Ah, I get it. On reverbs/delays, I change the mix and feedback percentages only between snapshots, and get no glitches. I don't change any other parameters than that. I don't bypass them either, I just change the mix to 0% if I don't want any for that snapshot. 

 

I have had scenarios where bypassing the reverb/delay block sounded glitchy. That's why I just leave it on, and just change the mix %. 

[PiFromBRC]

Kinda sucks, but I'm not sure how they're gonna be able to deal with it.I've turned all trails off on my snapshot presets to avoid the glitches, but then I don't get the cool reverb/delays trailing out when I come into a riff....

 

That seems sort of like killing the entire reason for snapshots.  I do have trails set to the 'on' position on every scene because that's pretty damned important.

 

But this brings up an interesting notion, probably academic right now:  Are the artifacts from the snapshot I'm exiting, or the snapshot I'm entering?

[PiFromBRC]

Ah, I get it. On reverbs/delays, I change the mix and feedback percentages only between snapshots, and get no glitches. I don't change any other parameters than that. I don't bypass them either, I just change the mix to 0% if I don't want any for that snapshot. 

 

I have had scenarios where bypassing the reverb/delay block sounded glitchy. That's why I just leave it on, and just change the mix %. 

I do bypass certain delays and the one reverb I have in these chains.  I will try activating all of them, keeping the trails on, and setting the mix values.  I'll report back with my results.  Thanks.

[jbuhajla]

That seems sort of like killing the entire reason for snapshots.  I do have trails set to the 'on' position on every scene because that's pretty damned important.

 

But this brings up an interesting notion, probably academic right now:  Are the artifacts from the snapshot I'm exiting, or the snapshot I'm entering?

This could be wrong, but I believe the parameters of the snapshot you are entering are being applied to the "trails" signal. It would be the same as reaching down to your stand alone stomp box and turning one of the parameter knobs very quickly to the new parameter value. So the the answer would be both. It comes from the change in a particular parameter. It is especially noticeable on delays when changing the milliseconds time value. 

 

What I do sometimes to see what will happen when changing a value is to just let some notes ring out and reach down and tweak the knobs on all the parameters to see what they do. If I find one that sounds glitchy when changing it, I don't change that parameter between snapshots. 

[silverhead]

That seems sort of like killing the entire reason for snapshots. I do have trails set to the 'on' position on every scene because that's pretty damned important.

...

Actually I think the entire reason for snapshots is to avoid having to reload the DSP. The reload is responsible for the momentary dropout of the sound when switching presets. Snapshots permits changing the on/off states of FX blocks and their parameters within the same preset, eliminating the dropout. This means the change in parameter settings in any given FX block can be heard, and that's what's happening here when trails are on.

 

Can't have it both ways. Either use separate presets and lose the trails as well as suffer the dropout, or use snapshots. If using snapshots, either turn the trails off or hear the warbling as the parameter values change as you're listening.

(Edit: I'm interested to hear the results of your experiment with the Mix and Feedback parameters.)

 

A solution would be to use two different instances of the same FX in the different snapshots. Turn trails on in both but do not use the snapshot controller with the offending parameter.

[gunpointmetal]

That's not really a solution if you're using Snapshots to control a "pedalboard" thats nearly at maximum DSP, and either way the trails the feature is useless unless you don't change the parameters (with the mix setting changing, whats the point of even having trails on if you going to cut them down to 0%?), or only use the thing in "stompbox" mode where you're simply turning the effect off/on and not changing its parameters (the whole point of Snapshots, no?).

 

I'm not expecting a work around that actually works for this, but its something to note for future devices.

[silverhead]

That's not really a solution if you're using Snapshots to control a "pedalboard" thats nearly at maximum DSP, .....

Very true. Doubling up on the FX block is only an option if you have the required DSP available.

 

If one is in the habit of maximizing DSP utilization in all presets then I guess it's a matter of priorities and preferences like it is in all situations where the DSP is nearly maxed out. What's more important - avoiding the warbling by doubling up the FX, or including an additional and different FX? Presumably you've already made the decision about what to include when you first built the preset and reached the DSP limit. Now you need to revisit the decision with the new requirement - trails with no warbles.