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MIDI Control of Snapshots Acting Strange

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I have a number of songs for which I hope to use snapshots.  And I have to automate the switching of those snapshots using a simple MIDI file, which my band runs in software called QLab.

 

I've just tried it, and it seems to behave strangely.  The attached picture below shows the commands I am sending to the Helix, as I created them in Logic Pro X.

 

post-5184-0-34422400-1485749645_thumb.png

 

The MIDI commands shown are intended to do the following:

1.  Program Change to select SETLIST 3, PRESET 2

2.  Control Change to select SNAPSHOT 1, staying on PRESET 2 (say for verse chords)

3.  Control Change to select SNAPSHOT 2, staying on PRESET 2 (say for solo)

4.  Control Change to return to SNAPSHOT 1, staying on PRESET 2 (say for verse chords again)

5.  Control Change to select SNAPSHOT 3, staying on PRESET 2 (say for power chords ending) NOTE: the picture has a 3 where it should have a 2 to select SANPSHOT 3.  That has been fixed.

 

1, 2, and 3 seem to work fine.  But every time 4 runs it either takes the Helix to PRESET 125 in the same SETLIST, or it takes it to the first preset in another set list.  Then 5 will select SNAPSHOT 3 of that incorrect preset.

 

I guess I can't imagine what is causing this.  I have run to MIDI file completely separate from all other MIDI data, with the same result(s).  I've got a lot of experience with computers, with MIDI, and with debugging.  And I know that the solution is often something you just can't see without different eyes looking at it.

 

Anyone see what I'm doing wrong here?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Carl

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It looks OK to me. But do you have any way to capture the actual MIDI messages being sent? I'm thinking there might be some corruption happening or something else in the signal chain sending out another (possibly conflicting) message.

 

Also, can you have the software send that command on its own as a test to see what happens?

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Yes, I've isolated each MIDI command, and I'm sure that no other MIDI data are being sent, aside from the Program Changes sent by the Helix on a preset change.

 

I think this is a pretty serious bug, at least for those of us who need to use MIDI for patch changes.

 

I wonder if anyone can duplicate this problem?

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Yes, I've isolated each MIDI command, and I'm sure that no other MIDI data are being sent, aside from the Program Changes sent by the Helix on a preset change.

 

I think this is a pretty serious bug, at least for those of us who need to use MIDI for patch changes.

 

I wonder if anyone can duplicate this problem?

 

I meant to reply to this thread earlier today, but got distracted with actual work...

 

Anyway, I was thinking about that - the Helix sending PC messages upon patch change. Could it be possible that those PC messages are triggering something in Logic that is sending out some stray CC commands?

 

I'll try to mess around with this tonight a little.

 

Also, do you have any instant commands programmed in these snapshots?

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I was running MIDI-OX on a separate computer, and definitely was seeing the CCs and PCs that represent a program change, when what I was sending was a CC 69 0 to get me back to Snapshot 1 of the current preset.  Instead, today that CC always sent me to Snapshot 1 of Preset 125.

 

I'd sure appreciate hearing how it works for you.

 

Carl

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I messed around with shooting out CC69 values from Reaper to the Helix tonight via USB, and I'm not getting anything unexpected. I turned the Send/Receive MIDI PC parameter on just to be sure, and it's working like I'd expect. So, I don't think I'm able to be of any help to you. I really don't know Logic at all, so you may be better off opening a ticket here.

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Hmm.  Just to be sure, have you done what I did in my example, that is call up a preset that has snapshots using a Program Change message, give it a CC 0 for snapshot 1, then a CC 1 for snapshot 2, then try to go back to snapshot 1.  It's always that last step where things go bonkers.

 

I've tried sending the messages from QLab and Logic Pro X, but not from Reaper.  Ultimately, I have to use QLab, because that's how we automate our show.

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Just to add to phil, I control snapshots using Reaper all the time and have never had any problems like described here.

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Are you using Windows or Mac?  I can try creating the MIDI files in Reaper, rather than in Logic Pro X, and see if that works for me.  Maybe LPX is introducing something I'm missing.  Are you on the latest Helix  firmware?

 

I appreciate the sharing of experiences.  Thanks.

 

Carl

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Hmm.  Just to be sure, have you done what I did in my example, that is call up a preset that has snapshots using a Program Change message, give it a CC 0 for snapshot 1, then a CC 1 for snapshot 2, then try to go back to snapshot 1.  It's always that last step where things go bonkers.

 

I've tried sending the messages from QLab and Logic Pro X, but not from Reaper.  Ultimately, I have to use QLab, because that's how we automate our show.

 

I just tried this scenario using MIDI-Ox:

- PC03 to select preset

- CC69 00

- CC69 01

- CC69 00

- CC69 02

 

Worked as expected. Different PC# than yours, tho.

 

... Just tried it with the same PC# as yours. Also works as expected

 

Using Win10, MIDI over USB, if it matters.

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Thanks for working on this.  I've been on a MacBook Pro, using QLab and Logic to create the commands.  I'll try creating the commands in Windows, as you did, using both MIDI-OX and Reaper. Ultimately, these commands have to be in a MIDI file, so maybe I can create that file in Reaper.  I won't be able to try this until tomorrow (Wednesday), but I'll report back here any results.

 

Do you know what Helix firmware you're on?  Mine, I think, is 2.12.

 

Carl

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Thanks.  That's what I'm on, too.  I'll be working more on this tomorrow (Wednesday) and will try MIDI-OX and Reaper to see if they work.

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I finally was able to get back to this today (Sunday). When I used Windows and Reaper to create the MIDI sequence, it controlled the Helix snapshots perfectly.  When I then saved that EXACT SAME MIDI sequence as a .MID file, copied that file to my MacBook, and ran that file inside both QLab and Logic Pro X, I got the weird behavior.  It always happens when  CC 69 0 is sent.  For a split second the Helix will go back to snapshot 1 of the correct preset, then it instantly changes to a (seemingly) random preset such as 125.

 

I guess I'm going to have to go back to my old method of using several different presets for each song where the guitar sound needs to change, but it's really annoying to have to back away from a solution I consider more elegant.

 

If anyone has a Mac they could try this on, I'd appreciate knowing if it works for you.

 

Thanks,

 

Carl

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