HonestOpinion Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I think all the compressors on the Helix would benefit greatly from some sort of meter or at least indicator as to when the signal has exceeded the threshold and compression has engaged. Right now it takes a good pair of ears and a bit of guesswork to determine when and for how long the compressor kicks in and when it releases. This makes it difficult to set the threshold properly. We need a visual indication as to when the compressor is engaged/released. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisvermaak Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I Like that idea! Would help me a lot since I do not have the ear to hear the kick in point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Agreed! It would be an excellent companion to a clipping indicator... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAGreenhill Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klangmaler Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Right now it takes a good pair of ears and a bit of guesswork This is true (as always). Sometimes a graphic response gives us the illusion of assurance. But we cant't hear with our eyes, anyway ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 This is true (as always). Sometimes a graphic response gives us the illusion of assurance. But we cant't hear with our eyes, anyway ;) No argument ever from me about using your ears to be the final arbiter for your sound, where the compressor kicks in and releases is not the only thing to be listening for in a compressor anyway. The logical extension of this argument though is why even have visible parameter settings for any of the effect or cab blocks, heck, why even name them. Just turn mystery buttons until the sound is right without the visual "bias" of knowing which parameter you are changing and how much. ;) A visual/"graphic" indicator is only an "illusion" if it has not been programmed properly. Not only can it be a definitive indicator of when the compressor kicks in and when it releases but it is a great training tool for developing your ear and a finer ability to hear when it cuts in and when it releases. It can make setting the threshold faster and easier even if your ear is quite good. The value of a visual indicator for the threshold in compressors is well established and that is why few self-respecting compressor plugins in a DAW would be without one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 This! The Helix needs a couple visualizing improvements. The compressors you speak of is one of them. Even newer transient plugins offer similar visualization. The other is signal level meetering throught the chain. Or at the very least, an indicator of when you are clipping going into any given block. The EQs could also benefit from this. As someone who works in a DAW a good bit, I welcome this kind of addition. The ears are the final judge of course, however speeding up the results by having a visual aid would be a great benefit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 Another reason a visual indicator is so helpful on a compressor is that even if you dial in the threshold setting perfectly by ear when you are at home designing your preset, you may be playing through a different guitar with different output levels on the pickups or just have the guitar's volume set lower/higher when you go to use that preset on stage. This may translate to the compressor, which although set perfectly initially, is now not engaging at all, rarely, or too often. Having the compressor not engage frequently enough because you are always below the threshold may be ok if you were strictly counting on the compressor to control volume peaks but not so great if you were using it for added sustain or some other purpose. If your guitar's input level is higher now than it was when you set up the compressor, it may now be constantly engaged which can also sound less than optimal or not be the tone you had originally designed. The fact that effects like compressors are so reactive to input level and require a properly set threshold to actually even engage at all - too high a threshold setting=no compression, makes them materially and substantially different from most other effects. Other effects tend to be either active or bypassed and when they are prone to tone changes upon varying input levels, such that the tone becomes for example more 'distorted' or 'clean', the nature of the tone change can often be easily discerned by ear. Combine a compressor's input level and threshold sensitivity with the fact that a compressor can be set for a very subtle and complex sound change, harder to hear than for instance a noise gate kicking in, and you have an ideal candidate for an effect that provides a bit more visibilty into how it is responding. A visual assist on these types of effects makes them easier to use properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klangmaler Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I was referring to your statement, that it needs a good pair of ears and guesswork... Surely an optical feedback (if it works not as a graphical toy) can be helpful. But turning 'mystery buttons until the sound is right' is a good idea, as long as your ears are trained ;) (I bought the Helix because it has colored LEDs, don't you know?!) I think that 'visible parameter settings' can be surely extended in the editor! There you have the (even bigger ;-)) monitor to use (more) visual indicators... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 ... But turning 'mystery buttons until the sound is right' is a good idea, as long as your ears are trained ;) ... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 No argument ever from me about using your ears to be the final arbiter for your sound, where the compressor kicks in and releases is not the only thing to be listening for in a compressor anyway. The logical extension of this argument though is why even have visible parameter settings for any of the effect or cab blocks, heck, why even name them. Just turn mystery buttons until the sound is right without the visual "bias" of knowing which parameter you are changing and how much. ;) A visual/"graphic" indicator is only an "illusion" if it has not been programmed properly. Not only can it be a definitive indicator of when the compressor kicks in and when it releases but it is a great training tool for developing your ear and a finer ability to hear when it cuts in and when it releases. It can make setting the threshold faster and easier even if your ear is quite good. The value of a visual indicator for the threshold in compressors is well established and that is why few self-respecting compressor plugins in a DAW would be without one. Unlabeled knobs wouldn't be confusing enough, although it would be a good addition, or would it be subtraction. I always liked Line 6's idea of percentages for the EQs on the HD. For Helix, they should follow this and have every unlabeled parameter knob as a unitless percentage, no exceptions. :D And sometimes have the percentage go from 100 to 0, or even a random order of 100 numbers. Seriously though, visual indicators for the compressors would be extremely helpful, for bass guitar in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 The original poster's suggestion is excellent! Please post this to IdeaScale to accumulate votes. I bought Helix Floor for use stand-alone (rather than connected to a computer running Helix Editor). Thus, I am far more interested in how these dynamic and active visual feature representations (compressor/limiter/metering/clipping) will be visually implemented on the Helix's display and interface (as opposed to how it could easily be accomplished in the Helix Editor and Helix Native software running on a computer). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 The original poster's suggestion is excellent! Please post this to IdeaScale to accumulate votes. I bought Helix Floor for use stand-alone (rather than connected to a computer running Helix Editor). Thus, I am far more interested in how these dynamic and active visual feature representations (compressor/limiter/metering/clipping) will be visually implemented on the Helix's display and interface (as opposed to how it could easily be accomplished in the Helix Editor and Helix Native software running on a computer). Thanks, I will post this up on Ideascale as soon as I get a chance. I agree that putting some kind of an indicator on the Helix itself in addition to the Editor is important. Not just for users who don't use the Editor but because, as already mentioned, changing guitars or guitar volume levels can require adjustment to the threshold or other parameters and you may be nowhere near an Editor but still require the visual assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 Unlabeled knobs wouldn't be confusing enough, although it would be a good addition, or would it be subtraction. I always liked Line 6's idea of percentages for the EQs on the HD. For Helix, they should follow this and have every unlabeled parameter knob as a unitless percentage, no exceptions. :D And sometimes have the percentage go from 100 to 0, or even a random order of 100 numbers. Seriously though, visual indicators for the compressors would be extremely helpful, for bass guitar in particular. LOL. Maybe this could be one of the global reset footswitch combinations, e.g. FS 8,9,&10. All blocks and their corresponding controls appear without block names, parameter names, or values - also, their functions and value order shift at random time intervals. Now that is how a real man programs a Helix. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleclee Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Don't just talk about it, vote it up! :) https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Gain-Reduction-Metering-for-Compressors/803927-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Compressor-metering-leveling-display/825467-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Gain-Reduction-metering/867834-23508 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Voted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Don't just talk about it, vote it up! https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Gain-Reduction-Metering-for-Compressors/803927-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Compressor-metering-leveling-display/825467-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Gain-Reduction-metering/867834-23508 Thanks for the links, no need to post a new idea there are three of them already. Voted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Will check what's on IdeaScale when I get a chance, but I'd much prefer a gain reduction meter over just a 'threshold exceeded' light. Among other things, some amps compress too, so seeing the contribution the compressor's​ making would be helpful. And yes ears, of course, but as folks say, the value of gain reduction meters​ on compressors is well established, in both analog and digital worlds. This value is obviously known internally, all that's needed is a readout of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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