Pod HD to power amp + cab vs. direct out to FOH - can I use preamp models for both?

[Alex_SF]

My rackmount rig consists of a Pod HD Pro into a Marshall 9005 power amp, which I then use to power a Marshall 4x12 cabinet.  Since I'm running a tube power amp, I use preamp-only models for my patches, no cabinet / mic simulation, and "power amp" as my output mode.

 

I recently picked up a Pod HD Desktop (bean), so I can copy all the patches I've set up for the HD Pro to it (after using the conversion utility to convert the files), and then just use the bean for practicing, tweaking sounds, setting up patches, etc., without having to drag the big heavy rack unit into the house.  I've hit on the idea that the Desktop would also make a good backup unit for live performances, in case either the HD Pro or both channels of my power amp fail at a gig.

 

If I were to use the HD Desktop at a gig running direct into the board, I know I'd need to switch the output mode from Power Amp to Direct.  My question is, if my patches are set up using preamp-only models, will this make them sound terrible when run direct to the board for monitor / FOH mix, even if I switch output mode to Direct?

 

If I want to have the "direct out" as a backup option, should I make copies of all my patches, load them into another setlist, and switch all the amp models to "full amp" rather than preamp?  And will changing from preamp to full amp models drastically change the output volume so I'll need to go into all my "direct out" setlist patches and rebalance all their volumes?

[cruisinon2]

If I were to use the HD Desktop at a gig running direct into the board, I know I'd need to switch the output mode from Power Amp to Direct. My question is, if my patches are set up using preamp-only models, will this make them sound terrible when run direct to the board for monitor / FOH mix, even if I switch output mode to Direct?

If you take the amp and cabinet out of the equation and try to run the same patch through a PA, or any other FRFR speaker(s), yes..."terrible" is very likely to be the result. You will want to change the output mode as well as switching to the full amp models, but that's not a cure-all...it's just a starting point. You're transitioning between 2 very different worlds, and you'll find that you're patches will need to be EQ-ed VERY differently for an FRFR rig. So much so that you may find trying to adapt your existing patches to FRFR use may be more of a hassle than starting from scratch. The cab and mic models will become a HUGE component of your tone.

 

It will be annoying, frustrating, and usually more than a little daunting at first. But once you get used to it, you'll wonder why you ever dragged 120 lbs of crap to a gig.

[pianoguyy]

Think of it like math - the final answer is 24 - the sweet spot. 

You got there by by adding 2+2+2+2+2+2 --- until you got to 24. 

If you make one of those 2's a 3, the final answer is no longer 24. No longer sounding good. 

That doesn't mean that you can't take a one of those other 2's and change it to 1 to make equal 24 again. 

8+8+8 is 24. Still going to rock your face off because it is "24". 

 

 

Now, put it in terms of your rig. 

Change one thing, and it no longer gets the same result. 

But, yes, you can change other things to make it sound good again. 

 

 

 

So, go ahead, use an amp with a power amp, set to power amp - you can make it work. 
But it won't sound the same as when you go use an amp going direct when set to power amp. 

[spaceatl]

The approach of using PRE models and the same patches for direct or to a guitar amp/cab actually "can work" adequately IMO...It's a little bit of compromise in working within HD as it was designed. However, this approach is not for everyone.

 

When you use the PRE models, the cab models to change to a lighter attenuation version (live cabs) that are tuned for the DT50....basically, you are looking for the cab model that helps you with your Marshall cab...You also want to see how the modes render on your amp/cabinet...I would say try COMBO PWR AMP....STACK PWR AMP can get a very scooped vibe with some cabinets....Anyway, once you figure out what cab seems to work and get a couple of tones going, switch to studio direct and pic the mic that gets the closest to how your rig sounds...It's a bit of a pain, but what you generally find is that one or two cab and mic combinations are going to work the best on your amp/cab....Anyway that is the approach I have used since XT and it works pretty well....The studio direct is a bit of a compromise, but that is ok for emergencies IMHO...99% of the crowd will not know....

 

Making separate patches will always be better, but this approach can work...Whether or not it is right for you really depends on your situation and if it can work for you...It has worked for me very very nicely.