GenoBluzGtr Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 For those of you using a PA-style speaker for on-stage sound, are you using it as a Wedge? As a Speaker-on-a-Pole? Sitting in an "upright" position (standing on end)? If it's a wedge do you put it flat on the floor? on a Gramma or other isolation pad? elevated on a milk-crate or guitar amp stand? I am pretty much satisfied with the sounds I'm building so far through my K10. I've had the Helix about 3 weeks, and have been building patches using the K10 on the floor in a wedge configuration. I have a K8 on-order that I plan to use behind me on stage. Our band uses K10s as vocal monitors, but i think the rest of the band will want to hear a cab on stage (we rarely go to FOH in small clubs), so i'm trying to figure out the advantages or disadvantages of the different positional options for a speaker behind me on stage. 4-piece band 2-guitars or 1-guitar - 1-Keys, Classic Rock, Blues, Country. I usually run the PA/Mixer on my side, so we never have a real "sound man". We all sing and have mics and monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbatts Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Subscribed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvroberts Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Well this kind of puts you in the exact opposite position to a lot of us. I use 2 boxes in stereo - cause it sounds good! I have them facing me - gives good spill control and I hear really well. Sound guys love it. In rehearsal, where we don't have as much foldback mixing, I point one wedge across stage so the others can hear me well. If not they can't - even though it's good and loud where I'm standing. So you want to do old school where the band and the Audience hear mostly direct from stage? I think you will need to experiment - a pole behind you and a bit to the side might work well - but I think you will loose a bit of umph because of no floor effect. Might add a bit more low mid in global EQ if that happens........... The potential problem is that these PA style speakers are designed to push the sound in a cone to the back of the room - getting coverage of both band, audience and you might require some compromise - a traditional amp although very directional up close, seems to have more spread in the near field. It's the difference between infinite baffle - your traditional amp and horn loading - which to some degree of another is the PA style box. Can you mix a little guitar in all the foldback and FOH so you have less need to do it all with one little box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingsCool Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Best to try 'em all. I now have a pair of L2's and an Alto TS210. Lately I've been using the Alto as a floor monitor and I used the L2's as a PA on poles at a recent show. I have a small 3 by 6' rug I put under the monitor to damp the bass coupling when on a hard floor. Although the Alto isn't as bad as the L2's because it rests at a higher angle in monitor mode than the L2's do. I found the L2's sound better standing on end than in monitor mode on a hard floor (jamming in a large open room with hardwood floors and not much treatment). The rug has seemed to help that. The L2's sound great as a PA on poles. This last show was in a small church reception room (40' x 30' maybe with a 30' ceiling). Another band came on later, really loud, a Marshall with a double 4x12 stack and drums and bass. They used the PA for vocals, and they easily kept up with plenty of headroom still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I use a dedicated Yamaha DXR12 as a guitar speaker/monitor. I position it on the floor in a wedge position behind me the same as I would an amp in the backline. I have the DSP setting on my dedicated DXR12 set to "Monitor" in order to alleviate the bass coupling effect of a floor monitor. We're a 7 piece band and typically send all our instruments through the FOH PA, but whether we go through the PA with our instruments or not, I keep the same dedicated monitor on my backline as it's easier for all of use to maintain our stage mix with a normal backline. We're a 7 piece band but normally all we route through our stage monitors (which are also DXR12's) are just the voices and the harmonica. I also occasionally play keyboard which is also routed through my Helix to my dedicated monitor as well as XLR to the mixing board. We also occasionally use electronic drums which are routed to a Mackie Thump12 monitor on the backline as well as DI to the mixing board. In that case the drum monitor is mounted on a pole along the backline to get better coverage on stage for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoBluzGtr Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Can you mix a little guitar in all the foldback and FOH so you have less need to do it all with one little box? Yep. I plan to run an XLR into the board for the rest of the band, but want to also have something for stage volume. I may eventually just plug into channel B of my K10 monitor (the one at my feet) and eliminate the backline speaker, but not sure if the rest of the band would like not having my sound on stage with the rest. Out of about 75 gigs per year, we have 4 or 5 where we mic amps or go direct to the board. The rest are all small clubs and we've been playing this way (not mic'd or direct) for over 15 years. With only one of us going into the mix, not sure how that will sound. In 15 years and hundreds of gigs, I can count on one hand the number of times we've actually has a separate sound-guy. We just run the PA from the stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 One of the reasons I settled on placing my dedicated speaker behind me rather than in front of me was that it felt more natural in a stage mix with the band. There's at least one gig per month in which we don't rely on putting the instruments through the PA and simply rely on our backline to fill the space. I've never had any problems with my guitar not being heard even with my speaker behind me in the monitor position. I've never done it, but I'm relatively certain you might have a problem being heard by the audience if you just have your guitar going through a normal monitor in front of you while everyone else is using a normal backline setup to fill the house sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joepeggio Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I have 2 ts110a's. I created patches with them as wedges. The patches did not translate very well to the PA. Thin and tinny tone. The coupling of the wedge etc... Isolating the wedge may work, or use pole to make patches. I'm curious on the isolation in the wedge position. I do have a Auralex Gramma I forgot about, hmmmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelik Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 In the rehearsal room, where my band mates need to hear me, I put my monitor on a pole behind me (just few cm/one or two inches taller than me, and about 2 meters behind me). When I play live, and in my case I generally put my signal into the mixer for the FOH, I prefer by far to have my monitor in front of me like a wedge monitor; in this case I use the monitor eq to reduce its bass frequencies at the minimum, and the sound is very close to the same tone I get with no equalization when it is on a pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 When I first got my Alto TS212, I was tweaking Helix with it on the floor and I had to use massive amounts of low cut on the cab blocks. Then someone here told me about floor coupling and that I should mount it on a pole or amp stand. Been mounting it on a pole ever since (and of course had to re-EQ all of my presets to accommodate), but now I'm considering getting an amp stand instead. I don't really like having the speaker at ear level or higher up and the pole won't get as low as I'd like it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joepeggio Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Im gonna A/B between a pole (On-stage Compact at 37") and sitting on an Auralex Gramma (when i get a chance, may be a few days.) I am curious if an iso pad in the wedge position will be close the a pole mount. My guess is likely still more bass on the pad due to proximity being closer to the floor. Edit: Then i will try upright on the Gramma vs the pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbatts Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Im gonna A/B between a pole (On-stage Compact at 37") and sitting on an Auralex Gramma (when i get a chance, may be a few days.) I am curious if an iso pad in the wedge position will be close the a pole mount. My guess is likely still more bass on the pad due to proximity being closer to the floor. Edit: Then i will try upright on the Gramma vs the pole. I'm looking forward to hearing the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Im gonna A/B between a pole (On-stage Compact at 37") and sitting on an Auralex Gramma (when i get a chance, may be a few days.) I am curious if an iso pad in the wedge position will be close the a pole mount. My guess is likely still more bass on the pad due to proximity being closer to the floor. Edit: Then i will try upright on the Gramma vs the pole. Are you sure you don't have a DSP setting on the speaker that takes care of that? On the Yamaha and QSC (as well as several others) speakers it's just a preset that changes the low end frequency response curve to account for the bass coupling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joepeggio Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Are you sure you don't have a DSP setting on the speaker that takes care of that? On the Yamaha and QSC (as well as several others) speakers it's just a preset that changes the low end frequency response curve to account for the bass coupling. The Alto TS110a's only have a contour switch. It basically boosts the lows and highs. But no specific DSP for wedge per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.