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CraigGT

Midi Thru and SysEx

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So I've been messing around trying to get Strymon Nixie to work through my Helix and I've discovered that Nixie sends out a SysEx message when It's trying to detect the pedals but the Helix doesn't appear to either output the SysEx message or pass it thru.

 

Has anyone else tried to get this or something similar working without using a merge box?

 

Craig

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On 2/6/2018 at 6:52 PM, CraigGT said:

So I've been messing around trying to get Strymon Nixie to work through my Helix and I've discovered that Nixie sends out a SysEx message when It's trying to detect the pedals but the Helix doesn't appear to either output the SysEx message or pass it thru.

 

Has anyone else tried to get this or something similar working without using a merge box?

 

Craig

 

I ran into the same problem with my HX Stomp. I daisy-chain all my MIDI pedals and the Stomp apparently doesn't forward the sysex correctly, so Nixie doesn't work.

 

Did you find a solution?

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@CraigGT

Just found your answer in another forum (about the MIDI merge box)

 

Still would love that the Stomp forwards all MIDI messages correctly... Doesn't seem like an impossible task after all.

I guess I'd need a box with 1 MIDI in and 2 MIDI outs for my daisychain

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On 11/15/2019 at 2:07 PM, moehuh said:

@CraigGT

Just found your answer in another forum (about the MIDI merge box)

 

Still would love that the Stomp forwards all MIDI messages correctly... Doesn't seem like an impossible task after all.

I guess I'd need a box with 1 MIDI in and 2 MIDI outs for my daisychain

 

Yes I ended up with a "MIDI Solutions" Merge box. It's handy because it can be powered by one of the midi in's.

 

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodmrg.htm

 

Craig 

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I have the same issue on my HX Stomp, firmware version 2.92. Have Line6 made a comment on why they filter all SysEx messages? I don't really see any issues with forwarding SysEx, assuming that they're not ridiculously large.

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I’m having the same problem. Had contact with Line6 and they told me it’s on purpose. Since then they added it to the faqs. It does filter sysex. I was hoping for a fix in the 3.0 update. But it looks like we are not getting any luck. I think it’s a big shame. I don’t want to use more hardware because it can be fixed very easily. So PLEASE FIX IT!!!!

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12 hours ago, Joeniek said:

So PLEASE FIX IT!!!!

 

That's the wrong wording... they do this on purpose so it isn't really broken - it's turned off! 

 

I can see Line 6 not wanting SysEx access to the HELIX.... but IMO... they should provide an option in the global menu to "turn on sysex forwarding".

They could just leave it OFF by default and let the power users turn it on as needed. 

 

I found this post on IdeaScale ....but it needs some more upvotes to gain some traction :) 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/MIDI-THRU-should-pass-SysEx-messages/988293-23508

 

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I don’t want sysex acces. I just want a midi thru to be a real thru!!! So it passes on al midi messages. I have a midi chain of Boss ES-5 / HX stomp / Strymom Mobius / Strymom Timeline / Strymom Bigsky. If I want to edit these pedals with the editor on my Mac I need to adjust the whole midi cabling to bypass the HX stomp. I think it’s just crazy I need to do this in the 21st century. 

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4 hours ago, Joeniek said:

I don’t want sysex acces. I just want a midi thru to be a real thru!!! So it passes on al midi messages.

 

I get that and I fully agree with you!

 

That is precisely why I posted the "ideascale link" so you might take the time to go upvote it. 

Line 6 does not read these forums... they are user forums. Ideascale is their official system for requesting a feature. 

 

4 hours ago, Joeniek said:

I think it’s just crazy I need to do this in the 21st century. 


Don't take it personally... they didn't do it just to tick you off!

Even if they don't share it publicly, they likely have very good reason for making this decision and they wouldn't be the only ones that do! 

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3 hours ago, Joeniek said:

I don’t want sysex acces. I just want a midi thru to be a real thru!!! So it passes on al midi messages. I have a midi chain of Boss ES-5 / HX stomp / Strymom Mobius / Strymom Timeline / Strymom Bigsky. If I want to edit these pedals with the editor on my Mac I need to adjust the whole midi cabling to bypass the HX stomp. I think it’s just crazy I need to do this in the 21st century. 


I don’t think it’s necessarily that unusual for processors to filter MIDI Sysex messages. I know of a few processors that do it, for sure. I think they’re just trying minimize the potential for problems downstream. MIDI is sort of a clunky protocol, and it get bogged down once it’s start dealing with larger amounts of data.

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On 11/28/2020 at 9:35 PM, Joeniek said:

I don’t want sysex acces. I just want a midi thru to be a real thru!!! So it passes on al midi messages. I have a midi chain of Boss ES-5 / HX stomp / Strymom Mobius / Strymom Timeline / Strymom Bigsky. If I want to edit these pedals with the editor on my Mac I need to adjust the whole midi cabling to bypass the HX stomp. I think it’s just crazy I need to do this in the 21st century. 

Did you manage to get the Nixie Editor working with your Strymon Pedals when the Boss ES-5 is in the chain? It seems like the ES-5 transfers sysex data, but can't handle the huge dataflow that occurs when trying to write the edited patch to the pedal.

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I got the same issue once I added one MIDI device configured by sysex messages after the Hx effects. As hw & sw engineer, I used to design a MIDI controler pedal. And of course including MIDI thru feature. For me it's obvious that when receiving a sysex message, the basic process is to 1) identify the manufacturer, if it's for Line 6 then 2) identify if its dedicated for the current device. If not, then all the sysex message must be sent to midi out/thru up to the sysex end command. Thats very simple to implement, because anyway you have to wait for and identify the sysex ending command. I just can't believe it has not been implemented by Line6. Expecially for the Hx effects which is intended to be THE controller pedal of the whole chain. So every MIDI config thru syex (eg coming from a computer) is obviously sent thru the Line6 device. It's the case for all strymon devices not having config thru USB but only thru MIDI. So, Line6, a MUST DO ! otherwhise this device cannot be considered as a main control device in a pedalboard.

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40 minutes ago, VEVEF32 said:

I got the same issue once I added one MIDI device configured by sysex messages after the Hx effects. As hw & sw engineer, I used to design a MIDI controler pedal. And of course including MIDI thru feature. For me it's obvious that when receiving a sysex message, the basic process is to 1) identify the manufacturer, if it's for Line 6 then 2) identify if its dedicated for the current device. If not, then all the sysex message must be sent to midi out/thru up to the sysex end command. Thats very simple to implement, because anyway you have to wait for and identify the sysex ending command. I just can't believe it has not been implemented by Line6. Expecially for the Hx effects which is intended to be THE controller pedal of the whole chain. So every MIDI config thru syex (eg coming from a computer) is obviously sent thru the Line6 device. It's the case for all strymon devices not having config thru USB but only thru MIDI. So, Line6, a MUST DO ! otherwhise this device cannot be considered as a main control device in a pedalboard.


Well consider it what you want... The lack of Sysex has never stopped me from using it as a MIDI controller for my pedalboard.

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Yes, of course, I agree with you that we can use this device as a great MIDI controler. My point is that this device should not consider it is the ONLY MIDI device in the chain, especially if it's a midi controler !  It should forward all input MIDI commands (except the sysex intended for its own purpose). As mentionned above, if you chain, on a pedalboard, first HX device then a strymon device (for example; personnaly it's another sysex-programmable device), then the other device becomes un-programmable thru the MIDI chain going thru the Line6 device first. The only way is to add a MIDI merger after the Line6, which is obviously ridiculous, considering that the Line6 device makes, on the other hand, a perfect MIDI-thru feature (except for Sysex commands). Either it implements the MIDI-thru feature, either it does not. But if it does, it should do it 100%. Compared to this sysex pass thru, the MIDI clock pass thru is technically more complex (in term of real time & latency), isn't it ?

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On 1/11/2021 at 12:34 PM, VEVEF32 said:

So, Line6, a MUST DO !

 

Welcome to the forum...

In case you missed it earlier in this thread, Line 6 does not monitor these forums.... and they certainly don't take feature requests through them. It's a user forum to help each other. 

 

If you would like this feature added, please take the time to upvote the existing request on IDEADSCALE which is where L6 collects and discusses feature requests.
(you need to create an account and sign in to do so). 

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/MIDI-THRU-should-pass-SysEx-messages/988293-23508

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Agree, I meantime also added the same idea. Anyway thank you for the link, that's better if we all vote for the same idea. I voted !

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I have a new stompXL and obviously cannot connect NIXIE because of the issue above so I bought the box that @CraigGT recommended.  I am curious about the routing.  I assume it is the following, but I do not know for sure.

 

STOMP OUT > MIDI Merger IN

MIDI Merger OUT > TIMELINE IN

TIMELINE OUT > Bigsky IN

 

Then use a MIDI to USB

 

MIDI USB OUT > MIDI Merger IN

Bigsky OUT > MIDI USB IN

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Yes that's how I did it but remember that only In1 on the merger takes power so connect that to the stomp and I'm not sure that the Strymons have midi thru enabled by default.

 

Craig

 

 

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Just a thought, try and get it working through just one of the Strymons first, it cuts out all the midi thru variables.

 

Craig

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31 minutes ago, CraigGT said:

Just a thought, try and get it working through just one of the Strymons first, it cuts out all the midi thru variables.

 

Craig

Will do….  This is the last piece for the new pedalboard I made.  Until I need another one.
 

 

FA042294-E5AA-42C9-A704-68684DA0DCA0.jpeg

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