themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So I think I've come to terms that my Helix is just schizophrenic when saving presets. I've pretty much fixed the issues I had with the expression pedal not reading 0-100% by switching the auto engage from toe down to heel down...havent had the same issues since then. However...(again tied to the expression pedal bypass).....I have a Gain Block/Wah block attached to the auto-engage expression pedal (i've tried external and onboard pedal). The gain block has a 3db boost that kicks in to give the wah pedal a bit more 'character'. However, no matter how I have those blocks saved (either using the bypass button or using the expression pedal to make sure they are off....they will not be saved and recall in an off position. And its random which block is affected. Here is what I just went through, on the same preset... Recall 1 - Gain Block engaged/Wah block bypassed - Audio sounds like the Gain block is not affecting, but it disturbs me that it recalls and on the screen it has the Gain block lit. So I rock Expression pedal to engage/disengage the blocks. Save - click down a preset, and back to the preset in question - Recall 2 - preset engages with Gain block visually/audibly off/Wah block engaged in heel down position audibly, but visually its not 'on'.....I check status of the expression pedal it is reading as 0%. So its reading the pedal correct but its still pulling the preset I just saved in the off position....on and in the Heel position -manually highlight wah, press bypass this time, resave preset, click down a preset and back up- Recall 3 - it pulls up with the blocks not engaged audibly, but visually the wah block is on. Being that its not affecting the audio, I leave it alone - move preset down, and come back up again Recall 4 - repeat the results from Step 1, repeat the step to disengage the Gain block with the bypass button not the epression pedal this time - move preset down and come back up again Recall 5 - Comes back up with the wah pedal engaged audibly in heel down position. I really like the Helix, but I dont know how to react to something that is making that error and not even doing it consistently. TO have to focus on what will be f'd up everytime I pull up a preset that I know I have saved with wah/gain blocks off and pedal in heel down postion across 24 presets is getting old. I've had this for a year and I've used workarounds for other issues regarding the expression pedals and I'm ok with those, its just a different approach than what I like.... Any ideas? am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylotan Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I can't really follow what you're describing in your post because there are a lot of details and it's not clear which parts are the most important. Are you saying that you have the expression pedal switching blocks on and off? I've never even heard of the auto-engage before now - it's not in the manual. I have observed that the pedal only takes effect when it changes - so, if I switch to a patch with with the pedal half-way, it won't make any adjustments (e.g. to my volume block) until I move the pedal slightly. This feels like a defect to me, but maybe they have a good reason for it. It might also be the case that the auto-engage logic works differently to this at preset change time, so that they're inconsistent when changing presets, and perhaps this leads to what you're observing. You might consider uploading your patch so other people can see if the same problem happens to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp22684 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Curious: what's your global settings for your expression pedal? Global or per patch? I have many patches where I use my expression pedal to engage/disengage blocks. As well as the boss FV-500L to expression #3. The built in pedal, exp 1&2, set to save position per patch under global settings. The Boss, exp 3, set to global position as this is always tied to a volume block @ the end of the chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp22684 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 To add to this.... I've found that expression pedal position being tied to a block on/off will completely negate on/off state per snapshot. Work around was to set mix, or in your case, gain to be controlled via snapshot. When switching to a new snapshot they're set to zero if I don't need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So you are trying to use auto engage with a wah AND gain block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 OK to clarify....for Kylotan, I have a Gain and Wah block tied to auto engage when my expression pedal (heel down to start) reaches 5% of travel it engages the Gain/Wah blocks. What I was describing in my OP is the behavior I'm seeing with the Gain/Wah blocks. The Gain block seems to be only a visual issue on the Helix screen as I dont hear an additional 3db boost on the preset when I recall the preset and the Gain block is 'engaged', I think its just visually displaying it engaged, it isnt actually in the signal. I can tolerate this, as it doesnt affect the sound. My OCD wants it fixed, but I can live with it. However the wah pedal behavior has been something that i've been fighting for months now. There is nothing more distracting than trying to play sing a song, click to a patch and then have to look down to rock the pedal back/forth to turn off the wah. I do have global settings for my pedals set to 'Global'... So here is possibly a combination of things that could be adding up to it....I read in a thread awhile ago that the auto engage was designed to be heel down as off. If you wanted to use it as toe down off....then you had to reverse the polarity of the pedal in the global settings, and then also reverse the min/max settings so the auto engage would work correctly. I can try that again and use 'toe down' as my 'off' position, but then I run into the same issues I've had before where random reboots of the Helix would only read 0-97, 0-94, 0-98 on the pedal travel % so setting an auto engage % that consistently works is next to impossible..... ....both of these issues the OP one and the one I just described are a global issue, its not a preset specific issue....but it does seem to happen on certain presets more than others. ...Maybe that means those presets are corrupt in some way and need to be deleted and rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 Jbuhajla - Yes, I use that is all I use the expression pedals for. I have not tested this behavior with any other style blocks. But the wah block is the only block I've ever had any issues with regarding the expression pedals (onboard and external). I do not have a PC that I can connect and upload a preset at the moment...I've got a laptop running Xp currently and no editor for us technologically behind folks...lol. Hopefully soon that will be upgraded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 Ok, just turned it on this morning....here is what I get....no settings have been altered from last night. I'll preface this by saying that after my post last night, I jammed to Metallica's Reload and for the most part used my Rock Clean preset, Rock Hard (as well as a Lead version), Rock Scoop Hard (as well as a Lead version). I use the same "template" on all my presets, just change amp/cab/Eq's. Was having the 'wah' issue on the Rock Hard preset. Literally just turned it on.... It booted up to my Rock Clean preset....sounded fine. I decided to check the Rock Hard preset - came up with the heel down Wah sound. Ok, I havent moved the pedal, maybe it needs to 'calibrate' when turned on at first. So I do so Heel>toe, wah turns off. I jump to Rock Scoop Hard - wah pedal almost half way cocked sound, without touching wah pedal, jump back to Rock Hard and wah is not not engaged at all (as it shouldnt be when recalling). I jump to the 4th sound I have in this bank, Rock Modern, and it also has a wah sound on it, I go to the Rock Clean and it also has wah. Jump back to Rock Hard and it now has the wah sound. I just dont get it. This is all using on board expression pedal. When I filled out a ticket, they told me that sometimes the frame can get bent during use if too much weight is put on it. I've only used the onboard expression pedal at one show, and most of my jamming is done at home sitting down so minimal weight is put on it anyway. I know I'm about 6'3" 230#, but I also dont lean on it when I use it, most my weight is on my left foot (non-wah), lol. I would have to think that I got it new out of box not bent, and they would have 'stress tested' the materials to support at least my usage/weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 Lol....ok, I may just have to cave and send this in for a look....I'll have to revert back to my Boss GT 100 (ew!) lol....maybe what I learned programming the Helix will help make that sound less like sterile cardboard. lol... I changed my global setting to 'Per Preset'. went back through, tested each of my 24 presets (most had gain block engaged already, wah block off...but when wah was rocked, its like the bypass states were reversed so had to resave the presets with both blocks off after a 'calibration' of the pedal). Even clicked back through them after resaving all of them and they sounded fine. I'll report after my gig tonight, but I dont have a lot of confidence at this point. Will probably spend my pre-show time now programming my boss just in case I can't deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp22684 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Not sure this is your problem.... however I'd set the expression pedal position to be recalled by patch if you use it to engage. It could wreck a night if you grab a patch and never put the pedal back into heel position before switching. I have had behavior act rather erratic on me.... I couldn't to save my life get a block to disengage in heel position. As soon as the pedal was moved it would revert back to helix default. I had to delete the patch and rebuild from scratch.... I've also had things like a volume block randomly turning off when grabbing a patch. I got bitched out when the thing is set to 30% all night and then a random patch is @ full 100% I have no control.... that was fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 This sounds to me like you might be having some conflicts with the pedal position and the saved bypass states of blocks within snapshots. If you don't have the EXP Position parameter set to "per snapshot", it's very easy to run into these sorts of issues. That's especially true if you happen to have the Snapshots Edit parameter set to "Recall". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'm not using snapshots though. I did use that previously, when I did a preset per song.....but for simplicity sake until I get core tones nailed down that I like, I'm just doing basic rhythm/lead tones of different gain stagings. So for now, I'm not doing snapshots, but I see where your example would cause issues. I'm picking up another guitar from my drummers house to use tonight that I normally leave at practice and picking up my Boss unit. I'll recheck when I get home how it reacts again with the 'per preset' setting vs. 'Global'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp22684 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Yeah, per preset is great for the built in. I save all presets in heel position. If I end a song in toe and start the next song it's where I need it. That being said, if it gets bumped.... well you guess what happens. I look for a chance to quickly pop it down when it won't audibly be noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 Update: Pre gig - ...got home, and tested each of the 8 core rhythm tones and lead versions of each and all sounded like they should. I started it up, moved pedal heel>toe then went through each preset and sounded fine. We'll see if it sticks for the show tonight. Typically everything has behaved at home and then at the show I have to adjust on the fly to whatever its choosing to do. Maybe that setting did change something with how it handles the autoengage setting....we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 Update from last night.....Everything seemed to work fine. There were a few times that I think one specific preset loaded with the heel down wah sound, but I was singing and couldnt tell if I just bumped the pedal by accident. I think setting the global setting to 'preset' instead of 'global' may have done the trick. Fingers crossed....thanks for the help and replies sorting this out. I've loved the Helix since I've had it, minus the struggles with the expression pedal stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp22684 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Note some pedals might have a bit of jitter in them that could possibly cause auto activate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 That is fair, but the externals I was using were the standard Mission Engineering EP1 that worked flawlessly with my Fractal unit(s) as well as the Boss GT-100. However, in the cases of this scenario/post, i'm only using the on board EXP pedal. I'll roll with the concept that its 'fixed', for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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