BBE Sonic Stomp Impulse?

[mikemitch_105]

I used to run a BBE Sonic Stomp in the Helix FX loop between the Amp and the Cab. Now all my FX loops are used by pedals that go in front of the amp.

Could I achieve a similar sound by creating an Impulse Response of the BBE Sonic Stomp and placing the IR between the Amp and the Cab?

P.S. I'm aware of the controversy surrounding the Sonic Stomp. I can live without it, but I want to see if I am able to get close with an IR. The pedal just doesn't sound the same in front of the amp.

[kylotan]

Impulse responses can capture linear effects in the frequency (e.g. EQ) and time (e.g. reverb, delay) domains. So how much of the Sonic Stomp can be captured in this process depends exactly on how the effect works - and since there seems to be some debate over what it actually does, it would be hard to answer. If it's just an EQ curve, you can have that in an IR. If it's some sort of exciter or compressor, then you can't.

[mikemitch_105]

"The BBE is supposed to be a phase alignment device. The idea is that when a signal is amplified frequencies overlap and you get distortion. The BBE process is supposed to remove this distortion improving clarity and timbre. It is not a compressor, limiter, expander or harmonic generator. The BBE like any other tool can be overused and much of an amplifiers distortion character can be lost with overuse."

 

and

"Sonic Stomp’s application of the BBE technology is just like its big brothers, using frequency-dependent time alignment with integrated amplitude compensation. What’s all that about? Simply put, it helps a speaker more faithfully reproduce the signal so more of the nuance and detail is revealed."

I read something about how it delays lower frequencies at like 2.5ms so that they hit your ears the same time as the higher frequencies.

I'm going to create an impulse response of the pedal today and see what happens. Thanks for your info, @kylotan .

[HonestOpinion]

The italicized text below is from a post attributed to the BBE literature. If that description is accurate this would definitely need to be an effect not an IR. There are BBE maximizer plugins so I imagine Line6 could probably create it as an effect block if there was enough demand. I wouldn't mind seeing one make its way into the Helix although both the pedals and the plugins have been received with mixed reviews, many of them negative. I have managed to get good results out of them both in rackmount form on PAs and in pedal form on a guitar pedalboard. Just one more tool to be used, sure, bring it on.

 

It imparts a pre-determined phase correction to the high freqs
where most harmonic information exists. It breaks the signal into three sub-bands or groups;
Low freq group which is crossed over at 150hz, the mid xover@2500hz
and the high freq group that handles everything else up to 20k
Low group is delayed 2.5 milliseconds (below 150hz)
It has a control to set at flat or boost @50hz
Mids are delayed at .5 milliseconds while the highs are passed
through a voltage control amp. The high group is used as a point of reference to make dynamic amplitude corrections to the high freqs
RMS loudness detectors continuously monitor both the mids and high
freqs to compare the relative harmonic content levels of the two bands
and apply the appropriate amount of control voltage to the VCA
thereby determining the amount of high freq harmonic content present at the final output

[mikemitch_105]

2 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

The italicized text below is from a post attributed to the BBE literature. If that description is accurate this would definitely need to be an effect not an IR. There are BBE maximizer plugins so I imagine Line6 could probably create it as an effect block if there was enough demand. I wouldn't mind seeing one make its way into the Helix although both the pedals and the plugins have been received with mixed reviews, many of them negative. I have managed to get good results out them both in rackmount form on PAs and in pedal form on a guitar pedalboard. Just one more tool to be used, sure, bring it on.

3

 

 

I would love to see Line6 make an effect for the BBE maximizer!

I ended up making an impulse response of my BBE Sonic Stomp. I had the Lo Contour set at 10 o'clock and the process set at about 9 o'clock. It doesn't sound quite like the actual pedal, but I can hear a bit of a similar EQ curve with the IR. The level of the IR needs to be set to 0.0db on the Helix.

BBE Sonic Stomp IR.wav

[jbuhajla]

On 7/17/2018 at 2:23 PM, mikemitch_105 said:

"The BBE is supposed to be a phase alignment device. The idea is that when a signal is amplified frequencies overlap and you get distortion. The BBE process is supposed to remove this distortion improving clarity and timbre. It is not a compressor, limiter, expander or harmonic generator. The BBE like any other tool can be overused and much of an amplifiers distortion character can be lost with overuse."

 

and

"Sonic Stomp’s application of the BBE technology is just like its big brothers, using frequency-dependent time alignment with integrated amplitude compensation. What’s all that about? Simply put, it helps a speaker more faithfully reproduce the signal so more of the nuance and detail is revealed."

I read something about how it delays lower frequencies at like 2.5ms so that they hit your ears the same time as the higher frequencies.

I'm going to create an impulse response of the pedal today and see what happens. Thanks for your info, @kylotan .

Yeah, that's pretty much not linear. 

[CraigGT]

You could make a split crossover at 150hz and put a simple delay set to 3ms and 100% mix in the low path, the rest sounds like snake oil to me though.

 

Craig

[mikemitch_105]

It's definitely not linear. I was mostly interested in the EQ curve it brought. It's very minimal but I didn't really have a choice but to stop using the pedal anyway, so now the IR I captured is in my chain.

@CraigGT I just tried that, gives it an interesting sound on the low end. Might use it for an effect one day, thanks for the tip.

[gunpointmetal]

The only time I've ever heard one of those things have a positive impact on a guitar tone was someone running into the front of an old Line 6 Spider head. Every other time it sounded like it was basically a mid-scoop button set to varying degrees. They sound great on bass, though. 

[cruisinon2]

3 hours ago, gunpointmetal said:

The only time I've ever heard one of those things have a positive impact on a guitar tone was someone running into the front of an old Line 6 Spider head. Every other time it sounded like it was basically a mid-scoop button set to varying degrees. They sound great on bass, though. 

 

Yup...a "solution" desperately in search of a problem. Good marketing though. "Big Pharma" good, lol...

[mikemitch_105]

I was lucky for a friend to give it to me, I don't think I'd ever buy one

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, mikemitch_105 said:

I was lucky for a friend to give it to me, I don't think I'd ever buy one

 

That's all the evidence you need... nobody gives away stuff that's awesome, lol. ;)

[mikemitch_105]

9 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

That's all the evidence you need... nobody gives away stuff that's awesome, lol. ;)

 

Yeah exactly haha. I think it's an interesting effect though. At least I learned how to create an IR!

[HonestOpinion]

Here again is BBE's literature regarding this pedal:

It imparts a pre-determined phase correction to the high freqs
where most harmonic information exists. It breaks the signal into three sub-bands or groups;
Low freq group which is crossed over at 150hz, the mid xover@2500hz
and the high freq group that handles everything else up to 20k
Low group is delayed 2.5 milliseconds (below 150hz)
It has a control to set at flat or boost @50hz
Mids are delayed at .5 milliseconds while the highs are passed
through a voltage control amp. The high group is used as a point of reference to make dynamic amplitude corrections to the high freqs
RMS loudness detectors continuously monitor both the mids and high
freqs to compare the relative harmonic content levels of the two bands
and apply the appropriate amount of control voltage to the VCA
thereby determining the amount of high freq harmonic content present at the final output

 

 

With the exception perhaps of the " pre-determined phase correction to the high freqs" that the BBE literature quotes, theoretically you could get close to replicating most of what this pedal does on the Helix by using the crossover EQ combined with a 2.5 millisecond delay on lows below 150hz and delaying mids by 0.5 milliseconds. The "dynamic amplitude corrections to the high freqs" could be duplicated to some extent by use of the multi-band compressor.  A lot of trouble to got to for a sound many aren't that enthusiastic about to begin with but I think with some expererimentation the Helix could probably get you close even now without a BBE plugin.