Predelay for Effects Loop?

[mjlee25]

I'm guessing there's no way to do this, but does anyone know if there's a way to apply a predelay to what's sent to the Helix effects loop? I'm using an outboard reverb unit in the loop (Surfy Bear), and would like a bit more attack articulation.

[phil_m]

You could try just putting a Simple Delay block right before the FX Loop and bypass them both with the same footswitch.

[mjlee25]

Hmm, not sure I understand what you're saying. It seems that will just delay the note, and the reverb will still be applied to the entire note. I want it to work like the predelays on the Helix reverbs... the reverb is applied some number of milliseconds after the onset of the note.

[Kilrahi]

26 minutes ago, mjlee25 said:

Hmm, not sure I understand what you're saying. It seems that will just delay the note, and the reverb will still be applied to the entire note.

 

Did you mean to say "delay" instead of reverb in the above?

 

26 minutes ago, mjlee25 said:

 

 

I want it to work like the predelays on the Helix reverbs... the reverb is applied some number of milliseconds after the onset of the note.

 

Perhaps you could explain a bit more about what you mean because I'm a bit confused. Reverb and delays are somewhat related beasts. The "predly" feature of the reverbs is meant to mimic the "time" feature of a delay.  When you say you want the reverb "applied some number of milliseconds after the onset of the note" that's largely what the timing of a delay does. It is setting the time in between the initial note and when you hear the repeated note. 

 

However, assuming you meant to say "delay" instead of "reverb" for that first part, then you also say that you DO NOT want the delay to l still be applied to the entire note.

 

I don't really know of a delay that can be applied to a partial note exactly. There are complex ways you could potentially get there (such as with a split path where certain frequencies go on one path and other frequencies go on another, and then only have a delay on one of those), but the simplest might be to check out the "ducked delay" which does allow you to set some unique thresholds for which the note is not delayed, and at what points it is delayed. 

 

It might get you there. I apologize if this isn't at all what you're trying to describe. 

 

 

[mjlee25]

18 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

Did you mean to say "delay" instead of reverb in the above?

 

No, I didn't, I meant to say reverb. Sorry if I'm not being very clear, I think what I'm asking for is not possible, which probably adds to the confusion. I simply want the reverb in my effects loop to NOT be applied to the initial attack. Exactly like the predelay setting on the Helix reverbs.

[mjlee25]

I will check out the ducked delay, thanks.

[Peter]

I would use a split path after your amp block. On one path you insert a simple delay and the fxloop. Set the delay Mix and your reverb Mix to 100% (than you have a delayed signal without the dry signal on one path). Then you can mix the paths as you like.  ...I don't know if that's what you want?

[brue58ski]

The predelay in a reverb is essentially just a delay. So you need to somehow put a delay that is delay only, no dry with the feed back setup so that it has only one repeat. But you still need the rest of your signal to bypass that. The only way I see you can do this is to split into two paths. Then, in this order, put a delay and then your loop in this second path. The main settings your delay is going to need are mix at 100% (no dry signal) and the feedback set so that there is only one repeat. I can't think of any other way to do this right now so if you're using a split path in your patch, you're out of luck.

[mjlee25]

I don't think that will do what I want. If I do that, if I play a note, I will hear the entire note dry, and mixed with that I will hear the same entire note, delayed, with reverb applied to the the entire note. So I will hear two notes, each with its own attack, which isn't what I'm looking for. Or am I missing something?

 

What might work is to keep an entirely dry path, then add a second path that has a compressor on it which completely silences the first portion of the note. Then place the fx loop after the compressor. The only problem with this is that the dry signal (1st path) will have to be at the same level as the wet signal (2nd path), which is not what I want. After the dry attack I want 100% wet. To get around this maybe I could also put a compressor on the dry path which completely silences the the note AFTER the attack.

 

Anyone know which compressor, if any, is best for silencing a portion of a note?

 

[Peter]

On 3/8/2019 at 8:25 PM, mjlee25 said:

I don't think that will do what I want. If I do that, if I play a note, I will hear the entire note dry, and mixed with that I will hear the same entire note, delayed, with reverb applied to the the entire note. So I will hear two notes, each with its own attack, which isn't what I'm looking for. Or am I missing something? 

 

If your outboard reverb has a Mixer control, set it to 100%, too(so you have only the wet reverb signal on path 2). Then it should work. Use the path mixer to add more or less reverb.

But if  your reverb has no mixer this is not going to work.