Helix or Powercab as my soundcard?

[knoxdaz10]

hi guys i got myself a powercab plus to go with my helix floor. its really great. but i have a problem because i use ableton live on a pc, means i can only choose 1 soundcard. Either the helix or the powercab.

what i really want is to record the powercab, but use the helix for playback of abelton because thats where my monitors are plugged in. (into the xlr's of helix)

thx in advance for ur help guys.

 

[Kilrahi]

There's no advantage that the Powercab has over the Helix. They're the same can modeling.

 

I'd go Helix direct. Only use Powercab for performances.

 

Now, with that preamble, if you really just feel better recording the powercab than choose it direct. As long as your Helix is connected to the Powercab right, it'll all be part of the chain.

[knoxdaz10]

yeh i really want to record what the powercab is doing. i have to split every patch i make at the end of the chain (so it takes up both bottom rows), with one output with a IR to USB 1/2. and the 2nd output goes to DIGITAL which is the powercab. im not sure what to do

[Kilrahi]

9 hours ago, knoxdaz10 said:

yeh i really want to record what the powercab is doing. i have to split every patch i make at the end of the chain (so it takes up both bottom rows), with one output with a IR to USB 1/2. and the 2nd output goes to DIGITAL which is the powercab. im not sure what to do

 

That's the thing though. If you're after the one thing the Powercab can do that the Helix can't (amp in the room feel) that will never end up on your recording anyway. 

 

Everything else will sound the same no matter how you do it. It's possible I'm just not understanding what you're trying to do, but it seems like a straight signal chain is all that's needed. 

 

Maybe post a picture of your signal chain if you get a chance. 

 

[cruisinon2]

15 minutes ago, Kilrahi said:

 

That's the thing though. If you're after the one thing the Powercab can do that the Helix can't (amp in the room feel) that will never end up on your recording anyway. 

 

 

 

Yup... there are exactly two things that can capture the "amp in the room" feel, and they're on either side of your head. Won't end up on a recording no matter what you do. 

[amsdenj]

Powercab for recording is a better idea than might first appear. If you’re using Helix, then its a fine audio interface, so is HX Stomp. But if you need an extra block with HX Stomp, you can use the speaker models or IRs in Powercab, and use it as an audio interface. 

 

But the real benefit is amp in the room for you, and your guitar, even though it’s not being recorded to the track. Having sound in the room that you and your guitar can interact with changes how you play, and how the guitar sustains and feels. So I like the idea of using Powercab in a recording session, even if its not being mic’d or used as an audio interface. What it does is establish a context in which to enhance the overall performance, and that’s often a lot more important than anything else.

[Kilrahi]

16 minutes ago, amsdenj said:

Powercab for recording is a better idea than might first appear. If you’re using Helix, then its a fine audio interface, so is HX Stomp. But if you need an extra block with HX Stomp, you can use the speaker models or IRs in Powercab, and use it as an audio interface. 

 

But the real benefit is amp in the room for you, and your guitar, even though it’s not being recorded to the track. Having sound in the room that you and your guitar can interact with changes how you play, and how the guitar sustains and feels. So I like the idea of using Powercab in a recording session, even if its not being mic’d or used as an audio interface. What it does is establish a context in which to enhance the overall performance, and that’s often a lot more important than anything else.

 

Those are all good points, but to do the above there would be no need for an elaborate signal chain. All you would have to do is go:

 

1. Helix signal path without cab block plugged straight into Powercab. 

2. Powercab with IR or cab block.

3. Output from Powercab to DAW w/DAW set to use Powercab as sound card. 

 

My confusion and replies stems from the question on how much complexity to have.  If you like hearing the Powercab, awesome, but you don't have to sacrifice anything by doing so. 

[knoxdaz10]

1. Helix signal path without cab block plugged straight into Powercab. (so i need to set the output block to Digital, because Multi will have the guitar coming out my monitors on performance

2. Powercab using LF Raw as the amp in the room sound.

3. Output from Powercab to DAW w/DAW set to use Powercab as sound card. ( this wont let me playback my DAW from the helix XLR, if Ableton is set to use powercab as the soundcard.)

 

i really need helix for playback in Ableton, and to Record from the Powercab.

sux because i can do this so easy in Reaper. but i just got Ableton and i wanna use it lol

Edited April 20, 2019 by knoxdaz10
spelling

[knoxdaz10]

this is my patch i use with the Powercab on the helix.

https://line6.com/customtone/tone/4384526/

 

 

[knoxdaz10]

but my main issue i think is that every patch i make has to include the path 2 being split like in my patch i uploaded

https://line6.com/customtone/tone/4384526/

[Kilrahi]

27 minutes ago, knoxdaz10 said:

1. Helix signal path without cab block plugged straight into Powercab. (so i need to set the output block to Digital, because Multi will have the guitar coming out my monitors on performance

2. Powercab using LF Raw as the amp in the room sound.

3. Output from Powercab to DAW w/DAW set to use Powercab as sound card. ( this wont let me playback my DAW from the helix XLR, if Ableton is set to use powercab as the soundcard.)

 

i really need helix for playback in Ableton, and to Record from the Powercab.

sux because i can do this so easy in Reaper. but i just got Ableton and i wanna use it lol

 

Okay, now what you're trying to do makes more sense to me. The easiest way is just a split at the very end, one going to your amp, the other your DAW. This sounds a lot like what you're already doing, and the Helix usually has plenty of blocks for this.

 

The only downside is if you want to be listening to how it sounds in your DAW. In my opinion, you're still better off with Helix as your DAW because none of the amp in the room stuff comes through. Granted, I don't know what type of cab modelling the Powercab uses when it does its amp in the room modelling (aren't there six amp choices? Going off memory here). 

 

If it were me, I'd try to find a cab in the Helix that closely matched how the Powercab sounded in the DAW.  Then I'd connect your Helix to the Powercab through the XLRs. I'd connect your Helix by USB to the PC. I'd then do the following:

 

1. Set your HELIX output block to 3/4. 

2. Keep Helix input set to "multi."

3. Set your DAW master output to 1/2. 

 

This should allow you to hear your DAW recording through the Powercab. It will even allow your Powercab to create that amp in the room feel. You might want to test out that approach.  Also, I'm going by memory here on the Helix DAW settings, but I KNOW I'm very close so if you try it and it doesn't work let me know. One time I created an excruciating feedback loop that about brought the whole house down because my USB settings were borked. 

[knoxdaz10]

 

 

1 hour ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Okay, now what you're trying to do makes more sense to me. The easiest way is just a split at the very end, one going to your amp, the other your DAW. This sounds a lot like what you're already doing, and the Helix usually has plenty of blocks for this.

 

The only downside is if you want to be listening to how it sounds in your DAW. In my opinion, you're still better off with Helix as your DAW because none of the amp in the room stuff comes through. Granted, I don't know what type of cab modelling the Powercab uses when it does its amp in the room modelling (aren't there six amp choices? Going off memory here). 

 

If it were me, I'd try to find a cab in the Helix that closely matched how the Powercab sounded in the DAW.  Then I'd connect your Helix to the Powercab through the XLRs. I'd connect your Helix by USB to the PC. I'd then do the following:

 

1. Set your HELIX output block to 3/4. 

2. Keep Helix input set to "multi."

3. Set your DAW master output to 1/2. 

 

This should allow you to hear your DAW recording through the Powercab. It will even allow your Powercab to create that amp in the room feel. You might want to test out that approach.  Also, I'm going by memory here on the Helix DAW settings, but I KNOW I'm very close so if you try it and it doesn't work let me know. One time I created an excruciating feedback loop that about brought the whole house down because my USB settings were borked. 

maybe they will update the helix and powercab to work with better routing, maybe instead of multi on the output, we could choose exactly what we want.

or make helix and powercab seamless so that we only need 1 soundcard

[knoxdaz10]

1 hour ago, Kilrahi said:

 

Okay, now what you're trying to do makes more sense to me. The easiest way is just a split at the very end, one going to your amp, the other your DAW. This sounds a lot like what you're already doing, and the Helix usually has plenty of blocks for this.

 

The only downside is if you want to be listening to how it sounds in your DAW. In my opinion, you're still better off with Helix as your DAW because none of the amp in the room stuff comes through. Granted, I don't know what type of cab modelling the Powercab uses when it does its amp in the room modelling (aren't there six amp choices? Going off memory here). 

 

If it were me, I'd try to find a cab in the Helix that closely matched how the Powercab sounded in the DAW.  Then I'd connect your Helix to the Powercab through the XLRs. I'd connect your Helix by USB to the PC. I'd then do the following:

 

1. Set your HELIX output block to 3/4. 

2. Keep Helix input set to "multi."

3. Set your DAW master output to 1/2. 

 

This should allow you to hear your DAW recording through the Powercab. It will even allow your Powercab to create that amp in the room feel. You might want to test out that approach.  Also, I'm going by memory here on the Helix DAW settings, but I KNOW I'm very close so if you try it and it doesn't work let me know. One time I created an excruciating feedback loop that about brought the whole house down because my USB settings were borked. 

the helix is 1 soundcard. and the powercab is a 2nd soundcard. both have there own usb port on the pc.

seamless would merge the 2. i dont think u understood that part

[knoxdaz10]

this is an ableton problem really. as you can only choose 1 soundcard. where as using Reaper i can use as many soundcards that r plugged in i like.

but making helix and powercab share the same soundcard would make everything so easy

[knoxdaz10]

or i can spend more money for a 3rd soundcard and run all the outputs of the line 6 gear into it. which is what i used to do but i cant do that anymore because it broke and it wasnt any good really just a focusrite. i been eyeing the universal audio soundcard...

[knoxdaz10]

or being able to select ONLY usb1/2 AND Digital. but nothing else. that would fix it. (in ONE output block on the Helix)

Edited April 20, 2019 by knoxdaz10
missed a bit

[Kilrahi]

45 minutes ago, knoxdaz10 said:

this is an ableton problem really. as you can only choose 1 soundcard. where as using Reaper i can use as many soundcards that r plugged in i like.

but making helix and powercab share the same soundcard would make everything so easy

 

I'm just a Reaper guy. Does Ableton offer a lot of things Reaper doesn't over all?

[knoxdaz10]

ya i can write and record songs with 0 touching the mouse. all with push 2

[knoxdaz10]

1 hour ago, Kilrahi said:

 

I'm just a Reaper guy. Does Ableton offer a lot of things Reaper doesn't over all?

you basically never need to look at Ableton, and never need to touch the mouse. it can be in the background while u have youtube up or something, and it still works with Push 2

Edited April 20, 2019 by knoxdaz10
missed a bit

[rd2rk]

I'm confused - Using one ASIO Driver at a time is a Windows thing, not DAW specific, unless I'm missing something? How do you use more that one ASIO Driver at a time in Reaper?

[knoxdaz10]

7 hours ago, rd2rk said:

I'm confused - Using one ASIO Driver at a time is a Windows thing, not DAW specific, unless I'm missing something? How do you use more that one ASIO Driver at a time in Reaper?

i just went into reaper and ur right.

why was i thinking different? i think because everything was set for the focusrite.

sorry man i made a mistake there

[knoxdaz10]

10 hours ago, rd2rk said:

I'm confused - Using one ASIO Driver at a time is a Windows thing, not DAW specific, unless I'm missing something? How do you use more that one ASIO Driver at a time in Reaper?

i think i know why i thought Reaper did 2 soundcards at once. when i used to use reaper i was on a mac.

with the Aggregate Soundcards 

[rd2rk]

2 hours ago, knoxdaz10 said:

i think i know why i thought Reaper did 2 soundcards at once. when i used to use reaper i was on a mac.

with the Aggregate Soundcards 

 

I suspected as much. I'm relieved ! I thought I was losing it!

[somebodyelse]

On 4/20/2019 at 4:40 AM, knoxdaz10 said:

1. Helix signal path without cab block plugged straight into Powercab. (so i need to set the output block to Digital, because Multi will have the guitar coming out my monitors on performance

2. Powercab using LF Raw as the amp in the room sound.

3. Output from Powercab to DAW w/DAW set to use Powercab as sound card. ( this wont let me playback my DAW from the helix XLR, if Ableton is set to use powercab as the soundcard.)

 

i really need helix for playback in Ableton, and to Record from the Powercab.

sux because i can do this so easy in Reaper. but i just got Ableton and i wanna use it lol

 

I'd just stick with Reaper.