Helix with FRFR and Tube Amp - Stereo Issues

[fenderbenderlax]

Hi All,

 

I recently purchased a PRS MT-15 to go with my Helix and I'm really dig the set up using the 4 CM method. It works really well when using just the MT-15 with the cabs. However, I'm having some trouble when trying to go stereo with this.

 

To be specific my basic set up is as follows

 

Guitar --> Helix Guitar in

Helix FX loop Send --> MT - 15 Amp Input

MT 15-FX Loop Send --> Helix FX loop Return

Helix 1/4" Left Mono Out --> MT -15 FX Loop Return

 

In path 1 on my helix I have some pre loop effects followed by the FX loop 1 block and post loop effects with the output channeled to 1/4 inch panned hard left.

 

Next, I'm using a load box to try and create a stereo set up. Additional cabling is as follows:

 

MT15 Speaker out --> Two Notes Captor Amp in

Two notes Captor Speaker out --> Guitar Cabinet

Two Notes Captor Line out (Dry) --> Helix Aux Input [This serves as the input to Helix Path 2]

 

In path 2 on my helix I'm running a simple delay set to 20ms with feedback to 0 and mix 100% followed by an IR and output to 1/4" panned hard right.

 

Finally, to complete the set up:  

 

Helix 1/4" Right Out --> Headrush FRFR112 input

 

Problem: The sound through the Headrush is a fizzy mess. I wonder if what is missing is the power amp emulation? Would I need to route my Captor line out into a power amp before feeding it back into the Helix? Or am I doing something wrong with the cabling? 

 

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

[loydall]

I'm not sure I understand the point of the second step - can't you just run left/right outputs from the Helix - one to your Amp (as you already have) and then one to your Headrush (that path would need an amp & cab/IR patch(es) on it)?

[fenderbenderlax]

20 minutes ago, loydall said:

I'm not sure I understand the point of the second step - can't you just run left/right outputs from the Helix - one to your Amp (as you already have) and then one to your Headrush (that path would need an amp & cab/IR patch(es) on it)?

Yes then I would need to use one of the amp sims plus cab/IR....I tried that set up earlier and it works well...I'm trying to keep just the MT-15 as my core tone but to get stereo outs with the second path running into the headrush..

[rvroberts]

Simply, you are running tones designed for an amp into FRFR.

You need amp and speaker simulation on your FRFR feed and suitable EQ as FRFR systems also need high and low cuts to bring the range into typical speaker range.

There are lots of of ways you can go about this - but my advice is to look at YouTube videos on getting a good FRFR sound.

Then I'd build some good FRFR presets (not using your amp) - when you can do that, I suspect you will understand what you need to know and will be able to solve your specific problems with this rig.

[bobcoss]

Some good advice above.

 

I'll add to that saying, you can get great sound using 4CM.  But it's only going to be great to the amp you are doing your return too.  If you want to do some combination of wet & dry, with the characteristics of your amp, then do something like the following:

 

Dry signal direct from MT15 through Loadbox speaker connection.

Wet signal will have the character of your MT15 pre and power amp from your loadbox into HXE and you put stereo wet effects after the FX loop and output to your FRFR

 

guitar -> HXE input, [effects blocks] [FXLoop] Send1 -> MT15 input,  LoadBox -> return1 [effects blocks] [Impulse response for desired speaker] -> mono or stereo to FRFR amps.

 

Make sure you use the high cut to remove some of the fizzies.

 

I don't have a load box so I can't do your scenario exactly, but I have an old HD500 that I have used in 4CM to do something very similar and it sounds great.   I have the HR FRFR 112 also.

 

Bob

[fenderbenderlax]

On 8/28/2019 at 5:55 PM, rvroberts said:

Simply, you are running tones designed for an amp into FRFR.

You need amp and speaker simulation on your FRFR feed and suitable EQ as FRFR systems also need high and low cuts to bring the range into typical speaker range.

There are lots of of ways you can go about this - but my advice is to look at YouTube videos on getting a good FRFR sound.

Then I'd build some good FRFR presets (not using your amp) - when you can do that, I suspect you will understand what you need to know and will be able to solve your specific problems with this rig.

 Thanks for the comment...I was getting good sounds using the modeled amps and the FRFR...the trouble was more when using the 4CM with my amp...I did play around a bit and figured it out...but thanks again!!!

[fenderbenderlax]

On 8/28/2019 at 7:21 PM, bobcoss said:

Some good advice above.

 

I'll add to that saying, you can get great sound using 4CM.  But it's only going to be great to the amp you are doing your return too.  If you want to do some combination of wet & dry, with the characteristics of your amp, then do something like the following:

 

Dry signal direct from MT15 through Loadbox speaker connection.

Wet signal will have the character of your MT15 pre and power amp from your loadbox into HXE and you put stereo wet effects after the FX loop and output to your FRFR

 

guitar -> HXE input, [effects blocks] [FXLoop] Send1 -> MT15 input,  LoadBox -> return1 [effects blocks] [Impulse response for desired speaker] -> mono or stereo to FRFR amps.

 

Make sure you use the high cut to remove some of the fizzies.

 

I don't have a load box so I can't do your scenario exactly, but I have an old HD500 that I have used in 4CM to do something very similar and it sounds great.   I have the HR FRFR 112 also.

 

Bob

Thanks Bob! I think the advice is great!! I basically decided to use the 4CM with my Cab and a modeled Amp into FRFR...that seemed to work best and with some EQ was able to get a good combination...thanks again!!!!