Roland JC-85 or FRFR speaker

[erikfabler]

Hi,

I just got the Helix floor unit and I am trying to figure out the best setup. Im using a Roland JC-85 as speaker, connecting the Helix in the effect loop. I want to be able to use the fulll range of possibilities of the Helix with effects and amps (not using the 4 cable method).

 

My question is if I should continue to use the Roland speaker or change this into a FRFR speaker?

 

[DunedinDragon]

This decision is more about how you envision your rig working.  Bear in mind if you use the Roland you won't be using Helix cab/IR blocks and you're likely going to be mic'ing the cabinet, in which case what you hear on stage will not be what the audience hears.  If you want a more accurate stage representation of the sound the audience is hearing then go with a FRFR speaker and use the Helix cabs/IRs.

 

[erikfabler]

Thank you! 
Cant I bypass the Roland JC pre amp if I connect the Helix to the effect return on the speaker? This way I should be able to use the Helix cabs/IRs. Or?

[rd2rk]

4 hours ago, erikfabler said:

Hi,

I just got the Helix floor unit and I am trying to figure out the best setup. Im using a Roland JC-85 as speaker, connecting the Helix in the effect loop. I want to be able to use the fulll range of possibilities of the Helix with effects and amps (not using the 4 cable method).

 

My question is if I should continue to use the Roland speaker or change this into a FRFR speaker?

 

 

2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

This decision is more about how you envision your rig working.  Bear in mind if you use the Roland you won't be using Helix cab/IR blocks and you're likely going to be mic'ing the cabinet, in which case what you hear on stage will not be what the audience hears.  If you want a more accurate stage representation of the sound the audience is hearing then go with a FRFR speaker and use the Helix cabs/IRs.

 

 

54 minutes ago, erikfabler said:

Thank you! 
Cant I bypass the Roland JC pre amp if I connect the Helix to the effect return on the speaker? This way I should be able to use the Helix cabs/IRs. Or?

 

The full range of possibilities with Helix and a guitar amp is realized by using 4cm or FRFR. Or both. Or Powercab(s).

If you choose to stay with the JC, 4cm is the way to go.

If your problem with 4cm is the mess of cables, get a Pedalsnake, or just use cable ties to bundle them together.

 

Whether or not to use Cabs/IRs with the JC is subjective, NOT a set in stone rule. There are no rules. If it sounds good, do it.

Odds are that, while you can get close to matching your stage sound with what the audience hears, it will never be the same. All FOH systems sound different.

Likewise, all FRFR "solutions" sound different. Which one will you buy? Ask advice here or on TGP, you'll get a list of everyone's favorites. You'll never find a store that has ALL of them to compare. A crap shoot, a rabbit hole.

 

FWIW - At home I use a Powercab 112+ AND a FRFR112. Sometimes I use Cabs/IRs, sometimes just the Raw Powercab speaker (or one of the emulations) and an IR through the FRFR112.

 

On stage I use the Powercab with XLR from Powercab to FOH. I have a 15w/112 tube combo with FX Loop that I never use anymore. It's for sale. One L6 Link cable from Helix to Powercab is all you need, and XLR from Powercab to FOH. EZ PZ.

 

A second Powercab for stereo would be cool, eliminate the FRFR112 completely. Need two inputs at the FOH board though. Oh dear, what shall I do? Let me check my Lotto numbers. Maybe I'll get TWO PC212+ cabs - quadrophenia! Wait - 2 x 50 lbs = 100lbs - where's my roadie?

 

IMO -  the closest you'll get to stage sound matching FOH is a Powercab, with the XLR out from the Powercab (carries the PC Input signal in FRFR Mode or Powercab speaker emulation +/- mic emulation - RTM) to FOH. Once upon a time, you set your amp on stage and the sound tech put a mic in front of it. That's what you get with Powercab, but without the stage bleed into the mic. Of course, if you don't like the way the Powercab sounds.......

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

7 hours ago, erikfabler said:

Thank you! 
Cant I bypass the Roland JC pre amp if I connect the Helix to the effect return on the speaker? This way I should be able to use the Helix cabs/IRs. Or?

 

You're bypassing the preamp but your output is still going through the Roland JC cabinet and speakers which adds it's own tonal colorations.  Using the Helix cab or IRs add their own tonal influence as will the mic selection and placements used on those cabs and IRs.  So you can see how you can quickly begin to build up quite a lot of tonal mush if you're not careful.  This is the reason why the general approach is to use cabinets/IRs with FRFR speakers and use the native speakers when going through an amp and cabinet.

[erikfabler]

OK. Thanks.

 

Sounds like the best option if I want to utilize the full range of the Helix is to get an FRFR speaker.

 

I have an opportunity to get an Headrush FRFR-112, in good shape for 230 USD/ 210 Euro. Good deal?

[rd2rk]

5 hours ago, erikfabler said:

OK. Thanks.

 

Sounds like the best option if I want to utilize the full range of the Helix is to get an FRFR speaker.

 

I have an opportunity to get an Headrush FRFR-112, in good shape for 230 USD/ 210 Euro. Good deal?

 

Sounds like a decent used price. You'll also want a SHORT speaker stand, something like this:

 

https://www.guitarcenter.com/On-Stage/SSAS7000B-Mini-Adjustable-Speaker-Stand.gc

 

This gets it uncoupled from the floor for clearer, not boomy sound, and puts it at about chest level so that the Hi Frequency driver isn't piercing your ear-drums!