Lag in Helix Software

[Drybonz]

There's a whole new wave of Mac hardware that just came out that will have Big Sur installed out of the box.  So, while I would agree that the base is pretty small right now, it's not like widespread use of this stuff is years away like Line6 would like people to think.

[surfsup1955]

Agree, both the new versions of Garage Band and Logic Pro X gained wanted goodies with the new OS so I went ahead with Big Sur.

[surfsup1955]

59 minutes ago, adamsguitar said:

 

 I would think that the size of the user base who:

1. Bought a brand new Mac that came with Big Sur preinstalled (are they doing that yet?) or have chosen to install the update intentionally
2. Just bought a Helix

Is probably pretty small. 

Maybe - but either way they're dead in the water.  They now own a brand new $1700 L6 product they can't update or edit as advertised.  My experience with L6 is;  they won't let that scenario go unresolved for very long..

[adamsguitar]

34 minutes ago, surfsup1955 said:

Maybe - but either way they're dead in the water.  They now own a brand new $1700 L6 product they can't update or edit as advertised.  My experience with L6 is;  they won't let that scenario go unresolved for very long..

 

I'm all for that! I hope you're right.

[Drybonz]

I think the more people who are on these forums encouraging them to update certainly can't hurt.  The thing that hurts is many people excusing them from the responsibility of keeping up to date.

 

I'm also hoping you are right.

[surfsup1955]

On 11/17/2020 at 5:06 PM, Drybonz said:

I think the more people who are on these forums encouraging them to update certainly can't hurt.  The thing that hurts is many people excusing them from the responsibility of keeping up to date.

 

I'm also hoping you are right.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-11-big-sur-compatibility-guide/#macOS-11-Big-Sur-Compatibility-List

 

Yea, me too, but after looking at the recent list of audio companies that still have NOT been able to resolve Big Sur compatibility issues - and it's a long damn list - I decided to bounce back to Catalina to get fully on board with HX 3.0.

 

[DBCrocky]

I certainly have no qualms about criticizing Line6, but in this case they made it clear they didn't have Big Sur compatibility yet.  You run it on Big Sur at your own risk.  Line6 is not responsible to make sure you can upgrade your Mac OS at the earliest opportunity.

 

 

[adamsguitar]

28 minutes ago, DBCrocky said:

I certainly have no qualms about criticizing Line6, but in this case they made it clear they didn't have Big Sur compatibility yet.  You run it on Big Sur at your own risk.  Line6 is not responsible to make sure you can upgrade your Mac OS at the earliest opportunity.

 

Sure they are. As a customer, that's something I want. Their actual responsibility (to their shareholders) presumably involves both protecting and increasing revenue, which at the end of the day means satisfying what customers ask for.

 

Whether or not they prioritize it is an entirely different question. But not maintaining their products in a way that is reasonable to expect (test your software and adjust with developer betas and be ready on launch day--if not before--with any necessary updates) is a perfectly legitimate criticism.

[adamsguitar]

50 minutes ago, surfsup1955 said:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-11-big-sur-compatibility-guide/#macOS-11-Big-Sur-Compatibility-List

 

Yea, me too, but after looking at the recent list of audio companies that still have NOT been able to resolve Big Sur compatibility issues - and it's a long damn list - I decided to bounce back to Catalina to get fully on board with HX 3.0.

 

 

VMWare Fusion to the rescue for me :)

[Wondo100]

11 hours ago, adamsguitar said:

 

Sure they are. As a customer, that's something I want. Their actual responsibility (to their shareholders) presumably involves both protecting and increasing revenue, which at the end of the day means satisfying what customers ask for.

 

Whether or not they prioritize it is an entirely different question. But not maintaining their products in a way that is reasonable to expect (test your software and adjust with developer betas and be ready on launch day--if not before--with any necessary updates) is a perfectly legitimate criticism.

I think if you need to use the Helix, bounce back to Catalina and use it until it is safe to go in the waters with Big Sur. Did you give thought to the fact that they wanted to get 3.0 finished and out to then finalize their testing with Big Sur so that it will be a smooth transition for everyone? They were very clear in their emails and announcements to wait. I went in and disabled all I needed on my Mac to make sure I did not download Big Sur, until such time as it is safe to do so. 

[adamsguitar]

2 minutes ago, Wondo100 said:

I think if you need to use the Helix, bounce back to Catalina and use it until it is safe to go in the waters with Big Sur. Did you give thought to the fact that they wanted to get 3.0 finished and out to then finalize their testing with Big Sur so that it will be a smooth transition for everyone? They were very clear in their emails and announcements to wait. I went in and disabled all I needed on my Mac to make sure I did not download Big Sur, until such time as it is safe to do so. 

This particular back and forth is pointless. The question is not how to continue to use the Helix (though, of course, this particular fallback doesn’t apply to machines that shipped with Big Sur on them). I will never understand why people continue to defend this lazy practice of not being ready for updates. It happens because the customer base allows it, not because it’s somehow noble or “right”. 

[surfsup1955]

Not say'n you're wrong but looks like virtually every audio manufacturer is stalled regarding Big Sur, so obviously..well it's just obvious.

[adamsguitar]

14 hours ago, surfsup1955 said:

Not say'n you're wrong but looks like virtually every audio manufacturer is stalled regarding Big Sur, so obviously..well it's just obvious.

 

Sure, but when is this ever not the case?

[surfsup1955]

7 hours ago, adamsguitar said:

 

Sure, but when is this ever not the case?

It’s not something I track but Big Sur was released in September and it’s almost now December, that seems a bit long in terms of catching up regarding this many manufacturers?  

[adamsguitar]

1 hour ago, surfsup1955 said:

It’s not something I track but Big Sur was released in September and it’s almost now December, that seems a bit long in terms of catching up regarding this many manufacturers?  

Big Sur was released on November 12. The public beta was made available in September.

[surfsup1955]

20 minutes ago, adamsguitar said:

Big Sur was released on November 12. The public beta was made available in September.

Yep, and I expect the Public Beta date is when these companies started working towards compatibility?

[adamsguitar]

Just now, surfsup1955 said:

Yep, and..?

You said that it seemed like a long time for manufacturers to respond given that Big Sur was released in September and it’s now almost December. I’m pointing out that Big Sur was released on November 12 (not in September), so as if today it has been out for less than two weeks. 
 

The gist of my argument the whole time is that manufacturers should be doing this work during the prerelease time (developer and/or public beta periods) but that music manufacturers rarely do that. Instead they wait until official release, so from that perspective no, two weeks is not a long time for a manufacturer to get out an update. 

[surfsup1955]

6 minutes ago, adamsguitar said:

You said that it seemed like a long time for manufacturers to respond given that Big Sur was released in September and it’s now almost December. I’m pointing out that Big Sur was released on November 12 (not in September), so as if today it has been out for less than two weeks. 
 

The gist of my argument the whole time is that manufacturers should be doing this work during the prerelease time (developer and/or public beta periods) but that music manufacturers rarely do that. Instead they wait until official release, so from that perspective no, two weeks is not a long time for a manufacturer to get out an update. 

 
Sorry, I was editing my post while you were responding.

 

I doubt they all waited until the release?

 

The link above confirms to me a more complex issue is going on rather than mass incompetence of the audio industry.

 

 

[adamsguitar]

1 hour ago, surfsup1955 said:

 
Sorry, I was editing my post while you were responding.

 

I doubt they all waited until the release?

 

The link above confirms to me a more complex issue is going on rather than mass incompetence of the audio industry.

 

 

:)

 

This has been my point for this entire discussion: they do. The audio industry (particularly hardware manufacturers) are notorious for not being ready for the release of a new OS version. It takes many of them (e.g. FocusRite) months to provide compatibility. This a problem that is typical to this industry (though they are far from alone), and while “mass incompetence” is one way to look at it the reality is that customers do not demand it, it’s harder than just waiting until release (since you have to deal with bugs and the frequent beta update cycle), and it’s potentially disruptive to a software roadmap so these manufacturers and publishers don’t prioritize ensuring updates are ready for go-live. 
 

The link you reference does not seem atypical for an OS release that is less than two weeks old. The holidays will push that out, but expect to see items falling off of that list by mid-December or EOY, since they do have to consider compatibility with brand new hardware purchased as gifts (or with bonus money, etc.) that come with the new OS preinstalled. 
 

Also, keep in mind that the list is not a list of items that are actually broken. It’s a list of either known incompatibilities or simply that a particular product has not been tested against Big Sur. Many of the items on that list likely actually work fine, but the manufacturer has not yet completed testing. 

[surfsup1955]

3 hours ago, adamsguitar said:

This has been my point for this entire discussion: they do. The audio industry (particularly hardware manufacturers) are notorious for not being ready for the release of a new OS version.

 

This coming February I will have owned my Helix 5 years, in that time my Mac OS has updated every year (Yosemite to Catalina), including a multitude of interim patch fixes.  Big Sur is the first time I have had to roll back to the previous OS due to HX incompatibility - or any reason for that matter.  That speaks well of Apple and L6 in my humble opinion.  I don't see a pattern with L6 that indicates they just sit on their hands waiting for the final release of operating systems.  Maybe?!?  But, if that's  their method of operation, they've been extremely lucky. 

[Wondo100]

20 hours ago, surfsup1955 said:

 

This coming February I will have owned my Helix 5 years, in that time my Mac OS has updated every year (Yosemite to Catalina), including a multitude of interim patch fixes.  Big Sur is the first time I have had to roll back to the previous OS due to HX incompatibility - or any reason for that matter.  That speaks well of Apple and L6 in my humble opinion.  I don't see a pattern with L6 that indicates they just sit on their hands waiting for the final release of operating systems.  Maybe?!?  But, if that's  their method of operation, they've been extremely lucky. 

So if this is the first time you had to do this because L6 was behind. Let's look at it scientifically... what could be the third variable problem here? In other words we are trying to look at the usual variables to determine cause... new computer operating system, new firmware updates, lazy, incompetent techs at either company, etc. However, if this time it seems a bit off than before what could it be? A third variable must be at work here. Maybe the pandemic? Oh, okay that would make sense. People are not operating at full capacity, products are hard to come by and on and on it goes. Give people a bit of a break this time around. Things are not what they used to be until we can get things under control they will not return to normal for some time. 

 

For some reason, we got hit with an appliance gremlin here at our house where our refrigerator, oven, and dishwasher finally started to kick the bucket. We ordered new ones and everything is on back order until next year sometime because of lazy techs, poor run business, etc.? No, because of the pandemic. Companies are not fully staffed and supply chains are slowed down along with production. It is just how it is right now.