Harbinger V2312 or v2315 for helix

[dnottis]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm currently using a Headrush FRFR108 for my Helix but its so bass heavy I've gotta trim the low cut to 140-150hz to get it reigned in.  i use it on a speaker stand or on the floor as a monitor.  I noticed Guitar Center has the Harbinger V2312 for $219 and was considering picking one up to try.  Its got some EQ features and a monitor voicing that I'm curious about how it would work over the headrush.  Its also rated for 2000w but silkscreened on the back seems to consume up to 400w where the headrush and altos show 800.  From what I've read this casts doubt about how loud they'd really be, we all know how speaker ratings can vary... but is it junk? lol

 

Has anyone tried a Harbinger V2312 or v2315 with a helix, and if so how did it sound?

 

[DunedinDragon]

If you insist on connecting bargain basement speakers to your premium quality modeler I doubt you're ever going to find a satisfying solution.  In this modern era of DSP powered live speaker systems, you get what you pay for.

A couple of serious things to consider.  Wattage is never a good indication of loudness.  You can't hear wattage, you and every other human being with ears can only hear sound pressure.  That's why the only thing that matters in the real world of loudness is SPL, or Sound Pressure Level...which is a specification cited on all speakers which is much more consistent in it's measurement than wattage.  Wattage can be measured in a number of ways from peak power to RMS.  It can also be reported as is common in many powered speaker designs that use a speaker and a horn as the accumulated wattage of the dual amps that drive those individual speakers.  It's also important to understand that the days of your stage volume being the most important factor in a live performance are long over.  Most live performance bands depend on a PA system for sound coverage in the venue for both vocals and instruments.  If anything, too much stage volume gets in the way of a good live performance sound more than it helps anything.  The target for good live performance stage sound is that each performer can hear themselves and everyone else well enough to ensure everyone in the band can blend together well to produce the best performance.  That's why in ear systems are so popular on professional stages.

 

The bottom line is the sound quality you get is just as dependent on the quality of the guitar and the output system as it is on the Helix.  You really have to ask yourself a very simple question.  Why is it that speakers such as those like the QSC K12.2 or Yamaha DXR12 are used in many situations as a primary main PA speakers for entire bands in medium to smaller venues whereas you never see that with Headrush, Alto or Harbinger?  The reason Harbinger has EQ dials is because they don't invest in the technology necessary to produce a consistent, high quality, desirable output that's been researched and developed and dialed in at a sound lab and has proven itself successful in all types of live applications.  For example the QSC K12.2 has the ability to adjust the contour of the sound not at random based on EQ dials, but hard wired and selected as a speaker options based on how it's being used whether as a stage monitor, a front PA speaker for live music, or a front PA speaker for spoken voice, or simply playing recorded music, or used in conjunction with a subwoofer...all designed and engineered by actual engineers in an acoustic research lab.  That's why they continue to be broadly revered in the real world of real live performance despite their higher cost.

 

[dnottis]

I didnt realize they were bargain basement speakers and kinda why I was asking.  For gigs we use professional sound people and in ears.  My usage is more for practice at home, we have our own PA we only use for smaller party type gigs with Alto TS315s so this speaker would only be used at home or if I wasn't using in ears at a party or a smaller setup I may use it for my own personal monitoring.  If the consensus is that Harbinger speakers are garbage then I'll happily pass.  I was just looking to see if anyone has tried them, if they sound terrible thats fine....for $219 I was just wondering if its worth giving one a shot.

 

 

[DunedinDragon]

17 hours ago, dnottis said:

I didnt realize they were bargain basement speakers and kinda why I was asking.  For gigs we use professional sound people and in ears.  My usage is more for practice at home, we have our own PA we only use for smaller party type gigs with Alto TS315s so this speaker would only be used at home or if I wasn't using in ears at a party or a smaller setup I may use it for my own personal monitoring.  If the consensus is that Harbinger speakers are garbage then I'll happily pass.  I was just looking to see if anyone has tried them, if they sound terrible thats fine....for $219 I was just wondering if its worth giving one a shot.

 

 

It depends on how accurately you want your home/practice speaker to represent what you'll get from a professional PA system rather than be surprised when you show up at a gig and need to adjust things.  In my opinion THAT is the value of having a decent live powered speaker at home for practice and dialing in presets.  I personally make heavy use of Yamaha DXR12 speakers as I have six of them.  I have one dedicated to my live setup at home and it's never failed to give me an accurate representation of what I can expect from a professional PA output.  I'm sure I could do the same with QSC K.2 series or possibly other higher end speakers.  I've even got a a EV ZLX-12P I might use in a pinch, but I've made head to head comparisons between the ZLX-12P and my DXR12 and the DXR is still more representative of what I'll get live from a professional PA.

Another example of the benefits of a higher end powered speaker is what I've been doing this week.  I've recently made the decision to get rid of the last of our on stage amps so that all instruments will be going direct to the mixing board.  As far as instrumentation we have drums, bass, acoustic guitar or banjo, and lead guitar, banjo, resonator, keyboard, or acoustic through the Helix.  I purchased a MXR M80 Bass preamp DI pedal, a Zoom AC-2 acoustic preamp DI and a QSC KS-112 sub.  I already have a Beat Buddy drum pedal for drums.  I was able to hook all of those up through my QSC TM-30 mixer with my DXR12 attached as output (which we use for floor monitors) and test all the various instruments and gain stage them so that I can be assured I'll have a good mix when the band gets together this weekend and we can make that amp-less stage setup with confidence that it will work fine, not only through our stage monitors but also through the FOH which is often two stacks of QSC KLA-12 line array speakers and KW-181 subs.  I would never feel confident doing that with something like a Harbinger or a Headrush.

I doubt the Harbinger would sound terrible, but chances are good that you may be disappointed once you show up at a gig and find you need to make modifications to your presets which I absolutely hate it when that happens.

[dnottis]

2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

It depends on how accurately you want your home/practice speaker to represent what you'll get from a professional PA system rather than be surprised when you show up at a gig and need to adjust things.  In my opinion THAT is the value of having a decent live powered speaker at home for practice and dialing in presets.  I personally make heavy use of Yamaha DXR12 speakers as I have six of them.  I have one dedicated to my live setup at home and it's never failed to give me an accurate representation of what I can expect from a professional PA output.  I'm sure I could do the same with QSC K.2 series or possibly other higher end speakers.  I've even got a a EV ZLX-12P I might use in a pinch, but I've made head to head comparisons between the ZLX-12P and my DXR12 and the DXR is still more representative of what I'll get live from a professional PA.

I doubt the Harbinger would sound terrible, but chances are good that you may be disappointed once you show up at a gig and find you need to make modifications to your presets which I absolutely hate it when that happens.

 

So that is kinda why the Headrush isn't working, our PA uses Alto TS315s and the patches through the HR are so bassy I have to change them when I go through any other PA.  I could setup dual output paths but thought maybe a different speaker would be a better solution.  I am hoping the Harbinger would be less colored and with the monitor / floor voicing I could use it as a personal monitor if need be.  The only issue I have with the FRFR108 is that its not a close representation of what I get in the live situation.  Thanks for the feedback, if I decide to pick one up I'll post my thoughts for anyone else considering one as a low cost FRFR for a helix.

 

[silverhead]

13 minutes ago, dnottis said:

 

So that is kinda why the Headrush isn't working, our PA uses Alto TS315s and the patches through the HR are so bassy I have to change them when I go through any other PA. 

 

Have you experimented with the Helix Global EQ? You could try setting it to address the HR bass and then use it only with the HR, turning it off or adjusting for other PA systems.

[codamedia]

23 hours ago, dnottis said:

I'm currently using a Headrush FRFR108 for my Helix but its so bass heavy I've gotta trim the low cut to 140-150hz to get it reigned in. 

 

Where do you set your contour button? Hint.... Engaged would be the wrong answer :) 

[DunedinDragon]

Well this all makes a lot of sense given you're using an Alto 315 for your PA which is just as bass heaver if not heavier than a Headrush.   I'm not sure how you'll overcome the problem with the Harbinger since changing the EQ on the Harbinger won't change what you send to the Alto 315 on your PA.  It will be just as easy to deceive you as the Headrush if you don't have a decently flat performance speaker.

Codamedia is exactly right.  If either the Headrush or Alto315 have the contour buttons turned on (depressed), that's a HUGE boost to the low end frequencies.

[dnottis]

2 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

Where do you set your contour button? Hint.... Engaged would be the wrong answer :) 

 

 

its always off.  I had a TS312 for awhile it wasn't bassy like this, neither are the TS315s the same patches sound great with low cut at 80-90hz, but with the 108 I need 140-150hz.  The 80-90hz worked fine with our sound guys equipment and another house PA we at a local bar we play a few times a year so not having to mess with patches at a sound check is obviously preferred.  The Headrush FRFR108 is known to be overly bassy and can fart out when it gets some volume.  All issues I only experience with the FRFR108.  So I'm looking for a 12in option with floor / monitor switch.  I'm going to give one a shot, will report back my findings..

 

Worse comes to worse I can get another TS312 for $249, the V2312 is $219..  and I'll either keep the FRFR 108 for acoustic stuff or sell it.

 

 

 

[dnottis]

So I'd just like to mention one other thing about the HR FRFR108, when connecting just a vocal mic or acoustic guitar the bass is too much too, I've gotta run both through my helix then into it so I can low cut both.  The more I think about it, the less I really like the FRFR 108 lol

 

[dnottis]

Alright so I've had it for about an hour.  The Helix sounds amazing through it, I can drop the low cut to 80 and its perfect.  The Floor Monitor voicing is great, reduces the additional bass coupling the standard setting has.  I'm sure there are better options but for the price it will serve its purpose.

 

I then connected it through BT to my phone and streamed some stuff from Spotify, as long as it doesn't bite the dust, I'm really impressed with it.  The sound is not colored at all, if you are looking for an affordable powered speaker, GC has them for $219 till Feb 3rd.

[jcrandall729]

Hey there. I know this is an old post but I wanted to know how the harbinger held up long term. I currently have one of their usb mixers which I run my Helix and a Headrush MX5 into. I run a pair of Headrush frfr108s out of the mixer in stereo and then out of the 108’s into an Alto TS212 to sum them together in the center. I was thinking of picking up another 12 but was unsure about the quality of the harbingers.