MIDI message format for Helix? (in depth question)

[dianoia]

Hi, 
I wonder why my Helix doesn't understand a midi message I send from Java app, I programmed.
Here is, what works and what doesn't:
- I can send MIDI CC#32 with value 001 from my DAW (Reaper) to Helix and I can see Helix changing the bank.
- I can send MIDI CC#69 with value 002 from my Java program to Helix and I can see Helix changing the snapshot.
- I can send MIDI PC#003 from my Java program to Helix and I can see Helix changing the preset.
- The only thing, that doesn't work is sending CC#32 with any value to Helix to change the bank.
Is there some special information I need to send to Helix to show a reaction to MIDI CC#32-messages?
Thanks for your help!
Jens

[rd2rk]

Can you see it sending properly in your Midi Monitor?

Are you combining the Bank Change with some other simultaneous Midi Message?

[dianoia]

Hi, thanks for your reply!
These are the MIDI-out messages I monitored:

 

CC#60 with value 001 (works for changing Snapshot on Helix):
00019082   3  --     B0    45    01    1  ---  CC: Hold 2

 

CC#32 with value 001 (doesn't work for changing preset bank on Helix):       
00020D83   3  --     B0    20    01    1  ---  CC: Bank LSB    

 

Maybe you can say, what's wrong with the 2nd message?
Thanks!
Jens 
 

[rd2rk]

If you're sending a Value of 001, that's the problem. Try sending a Value of 1.

IOW - 0 thru 7 = Setlists 1 thru 8.

 

[dianoia]

Hi, I tried to send value 1, same problem and same monitor output:
013C5ABA   3  --     B0    20    01    1  ---  CC: Bank LSB
 

[dianoia]

Now, I have monitored the MIDI send by Reaper's ReaControlMIDI (which is successfull to change Helix Bank):

 0011EA9A   3  --     B0    00    79    1  ---  CC: Bank MS
 0011EA9B   3  --     B0    20    00    1  ---  CC: Bank LS

 

I noticed the "MS" and "LS". My monitored signal was "LSB" - could that be the difference?

[kduck]

I've replicated your steps using Pocket MIDI.  It appears that sending CC #32 (select setlist) by itself does nothing, you must immediately follow it with a PC (0-127)  to select the preset within the desired setlist.  What are you expecting to happen when you send CC #32 without a corresponding PC?

 

I've only had my Helix for about 6 weeks, but I've found this to be a valuable guide when setting up MIDI:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/the-unofficial-helix-midi-guide.1954544/

[PierM]

CC32 inst just a "Bank" message, it's a Setlist message, so it does search for a structure/tree within MSB (0) and LSB (32), and then needs a preset PC, otherwise does nothing.

 

I do reccomend you to read the "unofficial" Helix MIDI guide, to go in depth with that aspect.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nynknyencnvqar/The Unofficial Helix MIDI Guide.pdf?dl=0

 

EDIT; @kduck ninja! :)

 

 

 

[kduck]

@PierM  Ninja on my 2nd post...might be an interwebs first ;)

[dianoia]

Thank you all! That's the solution to my problem.
But I didn't find it documented anywhere - I think I have to learn more about the MIDI protocol to understand...
Thanks!
Jens
 

[soundog]

MIDI has been known to make grown men cry and fall to their knees.

[CraigGT]

 

15 hours ago, soundog said:

MIDI has been known to make grown men cry and fall to their knees.

Back in the day, I had a Roland guitar synth that sent out midi messages that were causing problems with other modules so I had to build a filter using a UART to strip them out.

You guys have it so easy with your fancy codes :-)

[PatMarrNC]

On 2/4/2021 at 9:06 AM, PierM said:

CC32 inst just a "Bank" message, it's a Setlist message, so it does search for a structure/tree within MSB (0) and LSB (32), and then needs a preset PC, otherwise does nothing.

 

I do reccomend you to read the "unofficial" Helix MIDI guide, to go in depth with that aspect.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nynknyencnvqar/The Unofficial Helix MIDI Guide.pdf?dl=0

 

EDIT; @kduck ninja! :)

 

WOW! Whoever took the time to create the unofficial MIDI guide to HELIX has my respect and appreciation! What a great resource, exactly the kind of information that can make a well designed device like the Helix live up to its potential! Thank you for providing the link, and another big thanks to whoever created it!