Variax stays detuned after I leave Helix preset

[soundmodeler]

Hi,

 

I've set one of my Helix presets to tune my Variax JTV69 down 1/2 step. When I go to other presets, most of which are in standard tuning, this detuning won't change - the guitar stays frozen in it. In these other presets, the Variax tuning page incorrectly indicates that the guitar has changed to standard pitch ("0"). It's actually still 1/2 step down.

 

I do have one clumsy workaround: regardless of which preset I'm in, if I go to the Variax screen's tuning area and click "Custom" (it's usually set to "Don't Force"), the guitar suddenly reverts to standard tuning  - it wakes up or something. But this move aside, there's no getting out of the alt tuning. In the preset in question, I've set the tuning to per preset (not global). 

 

I'd be grateful if anyone has a suggestion about how I might fix this. I realize that the problem could be the Variax, not the Helix, but since I'm detuning in the Helix (I'm not using Variax onboard alt tunings or Workbench), I figured I'd troubleshoot the Helix first since that's where I'm making the adjustments. Thanks for any help. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 4/28/2021 at 12:36 AM, soundmodeler said:

Hi,

 

I've set one of my Helix presets to tune my Variax JTV69 down 1/2 step. When I go to other presets, most of which are in standard tuning, this detuning won't change - the guitar stays frozen in it. In these other presets, the Variax tuning page incorrectly indicates that the guitar has changed to standard pitch ("0"). It's actually still 1/2 step down.

 

I do have one clumsy workaround: regardless of which preset I'm in, if I go to the Variax screen's tuning area and click "Custom" (it's usually set to "Don't Force"), the guitar suddenly reverts to standard tuning  - it wakes up or something. But this move aside, there's no getting out of the alt tuning. In the preset in question, I've set the tuning to per preset (not global). 

 

I'd be grateful if anyone has a suggestion about how I might fix this. I realize that the problem could be the Variax, not the Helix, but since I'm detuning in the Helix (I'm not using Variax onboard alt tunings or Workbench), I figured I'd troubleshoot the Helix first since that's where I'm making the adjustments. Thanks for any help. 

 

I find the best way to address this is first to make sure that on the second page of parameters on the Input block you have 'Variax Settings' = "Per Preset".  Then set 'Preset Variax Tuning' = "Custom" for every Variax preset.  Make sure on the third page of parameters every preset/snapshot has your preferred tuning set. Even if you are using standard tuning. More of a PITA but it gives you explicit control over the tunings in all your Variax presets/snapshots via the Helix with much more predictable results. You also have the added benefit of assigning and changing tunings per snapshot in addition to per preset this way if you wish.

[waymda]

The work around you've described is it - set a custom tuning for each present.

 

Unfortunately the Helix/Variax interaction doesn't operate as described in the manual, which is a return to standard tuning.

 

Yes its painful, but as HonestOpinion says you know what tuning you'll get in each patch.

 

If you build a template to bas your patches off make sure you include those settings and then you don't have to do it each time.

[soundmodeler]

Thanks HonestOpinion and Waymda. Your advice works. Too bad there's no automatic return to standard tuning, but I can certainly live with custom tuning each preset (or snapshot, for that matter).

[silverhead]

I haven't tested this but a quick manual solution might be just to rotate the Variax tuning knob from Standard back to Standard as desired. Means you don't have to edit every preset, but you do have to be aware of when the manual solution is necessary (preferably before you start the next song during your gig!). So maybe just not very practical.

[soundmodeler]

Yep, silverhead - that works too. Thx.

[brue58ski]

This is an issue that I've noticed. before. There is also a similar issue with the Helix tone parameter. Try this. Make two patches with the JTV Variax and a compressor (just to get the volume up). Set one patch up with the tone at 1.0 and the other with the patches tone set at 10.0. When you switch from the 1.0 patch to the 10.0 patch, the tone will still be at 1.0 even though the 10.0 patches parameter says it's at 10.0. You can hear it. If you click on the 10.0 patches switch again it will then change. There are other parameter issues as well but I haven't checked them since the 3.1/3.11 upgrade. I have checked the tone issue though and it's still there. Haven't had time to check the others. I've submitted several support tickets for this since 2019. The issues have slightly changed but the bottom line is the Helix does not control the Variax the way the manual describes and hasn't ever since I got my Helix. It's still a very cool thing and controls it mostly. At least enough that I do use my Helix and Variax together. But the issues are there and it's been awhile. In regard to your detuning issue, try clicking on the switch a second time. Does it switch to the proper tuning then? Please let me know I am curious. I'm pretty darn sure it's not a bad JTV Variax since I have two and they both exhibit exactly the same behavior. Creat3e a support ticket for this. I feel like I'm the only one that has reported this type of behavior.

[HonestOpinion]

53 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

This is an issue that I've noticed. before. There is also a similar issue with the Helix tone parameter. Try this. Make two patches with the JTV Variax and a compressor (just to get the volume up). Set one patch up with the tone at 1.0 and the other with the patches tone set at 10.0. When you switch from the 1.0 patch to the 10.0 patch, the tone will still be at 1.0 even though the 10.0 patches parameter says it's at 10.0. You can hear it. If you click on the 10.0 patches switch again it will then change. There are other parameter issues as well but I haven't checked them since the 3.1/3.11 upgrade. I have checked the tone issue though and it's still there. Haven't had time to check the others. I've submitted several support tickets for this since 2019. The issues have slightly changed but the bottom line is the Helix does not control the Variax the way the manual describes and hasn't ever since I got my Helix. It's still a very cool thing and controls it mostly. At least enough that I do use my Helix and Variax together. But the issues are there and it's been awhile. In regard to your detuning issue, try clicking on the switch a second time. Does it switch to the proper tuning then? Please let me know I am curious. I'm pretty darn sure it's not a bad JTV Variax since I have two and they both exhibit exactly the same behavior. Creat3e a support ticket for this. I feel like I'm the only one that has reported this type of behavior.

 

Agree that the manual and the settings need to be corrected/reconciled. The workaround, even if some find it less than ideal, to this issue is similar, as you point out, to the approach to tunings I detailed above. Just force all the settings on the Variax by setting them explicitly on the Helix. At least you know what you are going to get when you switch to a preset or snapshot that way.

 

I suspect Line6's approach to HX operation of the Variax is similar to the one they took with the Powercab+ and this informs the lack of urgency for making changes to the way they are controlled remotely. For example, in the case of the PC+ you cannot select the presets on the PC+ from the Helix even though this capability has been repeatedly requested. You must remote control every parameter individually from the Helix. Once you decide to control the Variax or PC+ from the Helix/LT Line6 seems to shall we say "encourage" you to control all parameters on these peripherals from your HX device.  I appreciate their approach and I can see how it ultimately cuts down on confusion that might otherwise be caused by passing control back and forth from the Helix to the Variax/PC+.  It does however require more effort and intention on the part of the user when designing Helix/LT presets for the Variax and PC+. The allowable interaction and operation between devices could be documented better and with more detail.

[brue58ski]

34 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Agree that the manual and the settings need to be corrected/reconciled. The workaround, even if some find it less than ideal, to this issue is similar, as you point out, to the approach to tunings I detailed above. Just force all the settings on the Variax by setting them explicitly on the Helix. At least you know what you are going to get when you switch to a preset or snapshot that way.

 

I suspect Line6's approach to HX operation of the Variax is similar to the one they took with the Powercab+ and this informs the lack of urgency for making changes to the way they are controlled remotely. For example, in the case of the PC+ you cannot select the presets on the PC+ from the Helix even though this capability has been repeatedly requested. You must remote control every parameter individually from the Helix. Once you decide to control the Variax or PC+ from the Helix/LT Line6 seems to shall we say "encourage" you to control all parameters on these peripherals from your HX device.  I appreciate their approach and I can see how it ultimately cuts down on confusion that might otherwise be caused by passing control back and forth from the Helix to the Variax/PC+.  It does however require more effort and intention on the part of the user when designing Helix/LT presets for the Variax and PC+. The allowable interaction and operation between devices could be documented better and with more detail.

 

Yes. I always leave my tuning on custom. But the tone (and other) parameters issue still exists. I like to use the tone knob parameter for the Variax acoustics but I can't because it wil maintain that position in whatever patch I select next. A second press of yhe footswitch will correct but that is a flaw for which there is no suitable work around.  I just don't use the tone knob parameter. 

[soundmodeler]

9 hours ago, brue58ski said:

This is an issue that I've noticed. before. There is also a similar issue with the Helix tone parameter. Try this. Make two patches with the JTV Variax and a compressor (just to get the volume up). Set one patch up with the tone at 1.0 and the other with the patches tone set at 10.0. When you switch from the 1.0 patch to the 10.0 patch, the tone will still be at 1.0 even though the 10.0 patches parameter says it's at 10.0. You can hear it. If you click on the 10.0 patches switch again it will then change. There are other parameter issues as well but I haven't checked them since the 3.1/3.11 upgrade. I have checked the tone issue though and it's still there. Haven't had time to check the others. I've submitted several support tickets for this since 2019. The issues have slightly changed but the bottom line is the Helix does not control the Variax the way the manual describes and hasn't ever since I got my Helix. It's still a very cool thing and controls it mostly. At least enough that I do use my Helix and Variax together. But the issues are there and it's been awhile. In regard to your detuning issue, try clicking on the switch a second time. Does it switch to the proper tuning then? Please let me know I am curious. I'm pretty darn sure it's not a bad JTV Variax since I have two and they both exhibit exactly the same behavior. Creat3e a support ticket for this. I feel like I'm the only one that has reported this type of behavior.

 

I did create a support ticket for the tuning problem. Didn't realize that something similar was going on with the tone parameter. 

 

When you advise "try clicking on the switch a second time," which switch are you referring to? Thx.

[brue58ski]

10 hours ago, soundmodeler said:

 

I did create a support ticket for the tuning problem. Didn't realize that something similar was going on with the tone parameter. 

 

When you advise "try clicking on the switch a second time," which switch are you referring to? Thx.

 

The same patches footswitch. So you're on one patch with the tone parameter low in the patch; you press the footswitch for another patch that has the tone parameter saved high but it remains low from the previous patch. If you press the high tone patches footswitch again, you will hear it then go to that patches high tone parameter.

[soundmodeler]

brue58ski - got it. Thank you.

[brue58ski]

The volume parameter had a similar issue. I haven't checked to see what it's doing now since the upgrade. (Or not doing).

[HonestOpinion]

On 4/29/2021 at 1:51 PM, brue58ski said:

 

Yes. I always leave my tuning on custom. But the tone (and other) parameters issue still exists. I like to use the tone knob parameter for the Variax acoustics but I can't because it wil maintain that position in whatever patch I select next. A second press of yhe footswitch will correct but that is a flaw for which there is no suitable work around.  I just don't use the tone knob parameter. 

 

16 hours ago, brue58ski said:

 

The same patches footswitch. So you're on one patch with the tone parameter low in the patch; you press the footswitch for another patch that has the tone parameter saved high but it remains low from the previous patch. If you press the high tone patches footswitch again, you will hear it then go to that patches high tone parameter.

 

13 hours ago, brue58ski said:

The volume parameter had a similar issue. I haven't checked to see what it's doing now since the upgrade. (Or not doing).

 

Maybe I am not properly comprehending the behavior you are describing.  As long as I keep the parameter 'Lock Control (Preset)' = "Volume+Tone". My volume and tone predictably change according to the preset every time. The one caveat being that if you move either the volume or tone down all the way. set them to "0.0", not "Don't Force" which is the setting below zero on the slider. This works for the Variax volume and tone controls in my presets as well as my snapshots.  Are you talking about a different issue?

 

Btw, I have a JTV69s and I am on HX Edit 3.10 and the 3.11 firmware on a Helix. Is your rig behaving differently? If so it might be worth checking with a different VDI cable or doing a global reset.