Looper questions

[optimystery]

Hi, a couple of questions regarding the looper functions on Stomp XL.

To delete the loop the manual says press and hold the footswitch after having double tapped to stop the loop.

But when I do this I get the playback of the loop for about a second before it deletes. Am I missing something or is this a really just a bad design choice?

 

Also, considering capacitive switches are on the unit, couldn't the looper be controlled with a touch only, and not a full switch press?

If I am looping with microphones the acoustic noise creates a problem. This has been known with loopers for a long time, and is why the Echoplex had silent footswitches for example.

I know I could control it with Midi, but it seems capacitive switches for the looper could be added to a software update?

[rd2rk]

43 minutes ago, optimystery said:

To delete the loop the manual says press and hold the footswitch after having double tapped to stop the loop.

But when I do this I get the playback of the loop for about a second before it deletes. Am I missing something or is this a really just a bad design choice?

 

Normal.

 

44 minutes ago, optimystery said:

Also, considering capacitive switches are on the unit, couldn't the looper be controlled with a touch only, and not a full switch press?

 

No.

 

44 minutes ago, optimystery said:

I know I could control it with Midi, but it seems capacitive switches for the looper could be added to a software update?

 

Post it on Ideascale.

[phil_m]

The hold to delete function is a common feature with 1-button loopers. The TC Electronic Ditto, for instance, behaves the same way. The footswitches doesn’t “know” if you’re engaging a long press until it reaches the time threshold needed to engage the function, so that’s why the loop starts playing. The way to avoid this is to double tap and hold down the footswitch when stopping the loop. That will stop and erase the loop simultaneously. You also have the option of assign looper functions to footswitches in the Command Center, so you don’t have to use the looper as a 1-switch looper.

[optimystery]

Quote

The way to avoid this is to double tap and hold down the footswitch when stopping the loop

 

Ah thanks, this is a helpful bit of advice
 

[harryguenter]

As mentioned this is quite normal for one switch loopers (boss rc1 does it same way too).

It's a pitty that you can arrange a second switch for stopping the loop (command section for looper) but not deleting it (quietly) when using press+hold.

 

So if you missed deleting it in a live environment and don't want to irritate the audience by restarting the loop for another second before deleting: besides turning down the volume (of HX Stomp, AMP or whatever come behind it) you can also switch to another preset that doesnt have a looper in it. The loop will be deleted when you come back to a preset with a looper.

 

[harryguenter]

Got an overdub problem with the integrated 1 switch looper on my HX stomp.
When clicking on the record button the HX stomps starts recording the loop immediatly as it should. After stopping the loop recording stomp goes in playback mode as it should. So far so good.,

When I press the recording button for an overdub I have a delay of about 0.25 to 0.5 seconds before the overdub recording starts. This makes timing for the switch usage really awfull. It happens on pretty simple presets (only looper + Amp sim, no other pedal, no cabinet sim) so DSP shouldn't be a problem.

I'm also pretty shure that I didn't have this problem when I purchased it with Software version 2.9x. I'm now running it on 3.11. Though I'm not using overdub loops very often so I might be wrong.

 

Has anyone experienced the same and has any suggestions about how to fix it?

 

Can I go back to firmware 2.9 without losing all my presets?

[silverhead]

1 hour ago, harryguenter said:

Got an overdub problem with the integrated 1 switch looper on my HX stomp.
When clicking on the record button the HX stomps starts recording the loop immediatly as it should. After stopping the loop recording stomp goes in playback mode as it should. So far so good.,

When I press the recording button for an overdub I have a delay of about 0.25 to 0.5 seconds before the overdub recording starts. This makes timing for the switch usage really awfull. It happens on pretty simple presets (only looper + Amp sim, no other pedal, no cabinet sim) so DSP shouldn't be a problem.

I'm also pretty shure that I didn't have this problem when I purchased it with Software version 2.9x. I'm now running it on 3.11. Though I'm not using overdub loops very often so I might be wrong.

 

Has anyone experienced the same and has any suggestions about how to fix it?

 

Can I go back to firmware 2.9 without losing all my presets?

This may just be an interesting by-product of the implementation of the way the 1-switch looper operates.
 

By analyzing the operation mechanism you will see that there is ambiguity at the moment the switch is pushed down during looper playback. The push down of the switch is the first indication that the user wants to do one of three things:

- initiate overdub mode by quickly releasing the switch;

- initiate the undo operation by holding the switch down; or

- initiate the ‘stop playback’ operation by quickly double tapping the switch.

 

So what exactly did the designers implement to handle the ambiguity? What did they program the device to do during the brief interval until the user resolves the ambiguity after the first press down of the switch? The following is purely speculation on my part…..but it seems from your description that they decided to delay the overdub activity until the switch has been released within the brief interval.

 

A test, or perhaps work around, might be to try timing your switch tap so that you release, rather than press down, the switch at the instant that you want the device to begin recording the overdub. Of course you’ll need to begin the switch push down a very short time before the release.

 

This behaviour may indeed have been changed with the release of firmware v3.10. I don’t know about that. In any case you can revert to firmware v2.9 but you will lose all presets that were created using firmware v3.x. You should only revert if you have backups of all your v2.9 presets.

[superficialt]

@harryguenter

When you create a loop, timing the beginning and end is obviously crucial. But there's no requirement to time an overdub accurately*. Just tap to overdub at any point in the loop, as long as you start/stop playing at the correct point you're fine. 

Some standalone loopers have 'hold down to overdub' which I would find annoying. On the floor units you would probably be able to set this up using command centre if you wanted (separate actions for press and release), but I suspect these options are not available for the Stomp which doesn't have the 6-button looper.

 

The looper in the Helix isn't perfect. I've not come across your issue, but it seems that there is limited memory for it to function. If you 'undo' a layer and then immediately overdub, you can get weird artefacts where some of the previous layer (the first half a second or so of the loop) are evident in the new overdub. Which can really ruin it! You have to be careful not to be too quick with the overdubs. 

 

I use the looper loads, but it's the one feature that is a tiny bit disappointing in the Helix. I have never thought I needed any other pedals / amps etc but a better looper (with drum tracks please) would be killer. Suspect it's pie in the sky though. 

 

Quote

It's a pitty that you can arrange a second switch for stopping the loop (command section for looper) but not deleting it (quietly) when using press+hold.

If you have a separate footswitch for 'record' then pressing that immediately deletes any previous loops and starts recording. So this can solve the issue of 1s unwanted playback. 

 

*I'm sure there are some people that might want to initiate an overdub at a specific point (E.g. at the peak of a swell or something difficult to achieve another way), but for most cases it really shouldn't matter.

[harryguenter]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:17 PM, silverhead said:

A test, or perhaps work around, might be to try timing your switch tap so that you release, rather than press down, the switch at the instant that you want the device to begin recording the overdub. Of course you’ll need to begin the switch push down a very short time before the release.

 

This behaviour may indeed have been changed with the release of firmware v3.10. I don’t know about that. In any case you can revert to firmware v2.9 but you will lose all presets that were created using firmware v3.x. You should only revert if you have backups of all your v2.9 presets.

Nope, releasing is not a solution. It still takes maybe a quarter of a second after releasing the button before the overdub starts. According to your ideas it might be because the stomp waits for the finish of the interval for the double tap to stop the loop. So the overdub starts when the time for the second tap for stopping has elapsed.

 

What do you mean with the preset restoration?

Will I not be able at all to load a 3.1 backup onto a 2.9 firmware stomp or will I just miss the presets in that backup that were created with 3.x?
I assume you meant that I will not be able to load a 3.x backup into a 2.9 firmware stomp at all?

[silverhead]

7 minutes ago, harryguenter said:

...

I assume you meant that I will not be able to load a 3.x backup into a 2.9 firmware stomp at all?

I believe that's correct. It won't load at all.

[harryguenter]

2 hours ago, superficialt said:

@harryguenter

When you create a loop, timing the beginning and end is obviously crucial. But there's no requirement to time an overdub accurately*. Just tap to overdub at any point in the loop, as long as you start/stop playing at the correct point you're fine. 

*I'm sure there are some people that might want to initiate an overdub at a specific point (E.g. at the peak of a swell or something difficult to achieve another way), but for most cases it really shouldn't matter.

But still it a weired handling with that delay. And it counters the handling of the initial loop.

Lets say you do a percussion loop as first loop. Perfectly timed and all very well to do with the internal looper. Lets say its a 4 beat / 1 bar loop.

Now you want to overdub recording some backing chords and having a chord change on every beat. I know that I can start the overdub at any point but most likely you will start on a beat because you're used to it from the initial loop. Lets say you overdub on beat 3 playing your 4 chords and stop when you reach the next beat 3. Your result is a overdub sequence with the length of your loop minus ~0.5 seconds. As result you have a 0.5 seconds gap in your backing chords when you treat your overdub same way as the initial loop.

So what you have to do is starting on e.g. beat 3 and stopping it way behind the next beat 3 (1 bar loop) but before you reach beat 4. As a result you might get a double recorded section which can be heared too but is a lesser problem than a gap in the loop.
This is really weired and I have never encountered that with other 1 switch loopers.

However, I appreciate your tips and hints and welcome any further tips.

When I don't find anything else I will try out the downgrade to 2.9 and see whether my mind has tricked me or not. I'll let you know here.

[superficialt]

What I was suggesting is that if you want to start on beat 3, press to overdub on E.g. beat 1, then start playing on beat 3, stop playing on the next beat 3, then turn off overdubbing at your convenience. I don't see how that could introduce a 0.5s gap? There's no harm in a 'double' recording of no sound.