Helix and midi CC commands

[FAchterberg]

Hi all,

Have seen a lot of topics and watched a lot of youtube for this but nothing seems working. How to get my DAW sending CC messages to the Helix for switching snapshots.

I am able to send midi commands from my DAW (Studio One 5 Artist) to my Digitech Whammy via the Helix (floor) MIDI Thru but I am unable to get my DAW send midi CC commands for switching snapshots to my Helix. 

The Helix can send start and stop messages to the DAW so that is working but not backwards. DAW and Helix are working on the same MIDI channel (2) and the Whammy on a separate channel (3).  

Tried several things like change of channels, without the Whammy in the chain, turn off MIDI Thru and MIDI receive PC, everything in Global settings on USB but nothing seems working. 

I am running the latest firmware.

What are I doing wrong?

Thanks for your help guys.

[rd2rk]

Helix doesn't automatically send Snapshot MIDI, you need to set it up manually in ControlCenter using either Instant Commands or Footswitches.

CC#69 with a Value of 0 (SS1) to 7 (SS8).

 

I spent half an hour trying to get S1 to record MIDI, darned if I can figure out how it's done.

Loaded up Reaper, took 2 minutes, and it only took that long because I forgot I needed to set up a MIDI HW Send.

Loaded up Cakewalk, took a minute, no separate HW Send required.

Loaded up LIVE!, same, except for some reason won't record Program Changes. I'll figure that out someday if I ever need to do it.

 

I suggest that you first get your Helix sending the proper messages, verify that S1 is getting them using the MIDI Monitor, then go over to the S1 Forum and ask somebody how to make it record and play back MIDI.

 

I hate S1, only bought it because I was helping someone get Amplitube MIDI working and the crippled trial doesn't allow 3rd party plugins. AARGH!!!

 

Good Luck!

[zappazapper]

@rd2rk he's trying to send MIDI to the Helix to change Snapshots, not record MIDI from the Helix. But perhaps if you had issues with Studio One and MIDI in general, that might be the first place to look at. @FAchterberg do you have any other DAWs you can use to test, just to remove S1 from the equation? You can download the full version of Reaper for free. 

[rd2rk]

41 minutes ago, zappazapper said:

@rd2rk he's trying to send MIDI to the Helix to change Snapshots, not record MIDI from the Helix. But perhaps if you had issues with Studio One and MIDI in general, that might be the first place to look at. @FAchterberg do you have any other DAWs you can use to test, just to remove S1 from the equation? You can download the full version of Reaper for free. 

 

I get what he's trying to do. The easiest step one way to test it is to record the changes. If he can record them and get them to play back, then he can manually enter the changes and it should work. But first he's got to get S1 to send MIDI to the Helix and, from my experience with S1, he may have to try a lot of stuff before he gets it to work. I couldn't even get it to record MIDI, which is the easiest part with other DAWs, and I really don't care to use S1, so not going to spend any more time on it. S1 is a PITA to use MIDI with. It's routing method is horrible. When I was working on the Amplitube problem I checked into the S1 Forum, and there was only one guy who'd managed to get it to work, and many who said it just wouldn't. He had the trick, so OP could probably find the answer faster over there. Like I said, Reaper, Cakewalk and LIVE! work fine both for recording and sending MIDI, so if he's not heavily invested in S1, yes, another DAW would probably save him a lot of grief. Reaper (my go to) is FREE with only a quick nag screen when loading (until you pay the $60 for a license), Cakewalk (Bandlab) is totally FREE, and LIVE! has a FREE Lite version that's only limited in the number of tracks (8).

[zappazapper]

3 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

I get what he's trying to do.

 

Fair enough. @FAchterberg it seems that S1 has issues with MIDI. Unless you're dead set on using it, I would also recommend Reaper. 

[rd2rk]

Just to be clear - I'm not saying that S1 won't work, just that, unless someone with S1 experience jumps in here, you'd do well to check out the S1 Forum, especially if you have a lot of time invested in S1. Learning a new DAW can be daunting.

 

BUT....Reaper is better. Just sayin'....  :-)

[DunedinDragon]

It took me about 3 minutes to google a YouTube video for switching Snapshots on Studio One and the secret sauce came down to the value being sent for CC#69 which he had written down on a notepad and here's the screen shot of it:

I only did it this way because this guys video was almost unendurable as he first wanted to make sure your listened to his original composition before he'd hand in the details.  I thought I'd spare you that.  But if you want to view the whole video, God bless your patience.  It's at the following link but I'd strongly urge you to fast forward to the 7:31 time in the video to get to the meat of the subject:

 

[codamedia]

@rd2rk .... 

 

 IME, Studio One is very easy to setup devices, record midi and send midi. No hacks, no routing issues, no problem at all. It might have different ways of approaching things... but once you learn that it's a snap. 

 

EG: for something like this you program an automation lane, not a midi track. 

 

 

 

[codamedia]

20 hours ago, FAchterberg said:

The Helix can send start and stop messages to the DAW so that is working but not backwards.

 

What you are doing here happens automatically between the Helix and S1...... when the Helix has the S1 template loaded, and when you use the default S1 key commands. (I use custom commands so the stock template doesn't work well for me)

 

However, in order to send CC messages to the Helix you need to add it as an external device in Studio One. 

• External Device > Add new Instrument > set the parameters as required (EG: Midi channel 2 since you use that for the Helix, and set the output to the Helix)
• Add an automation track
• Drop the box that says NONE and choose "Add / Remove"
• From the right side, expand external devices for the midi channel you want. If there is is no midi channel separation, then there is only the one channel connected. 
• Choose and add CC69 to the automation track  (this might show as "hold 2 onoff")
• Add nodes where you want the snapshots to change.... don't forget to add a node at the start as well. 
• Right click on each node... and enter the proper value for the snapshot you wish to call. (don't try entering value with the mouse... just right click and enter)
  NOTE: Enter these values and S1 will actually adjust it automatically to the value that works. (the actual values are hard to remember, these are much easier)
  • Snapshot 1 = 0.00
  • Snapshot 2 = 1.00
  • Snapshot 3 = 1.75
  • Snapshot 4 = 2.00
  • Snapshot 5 = 3.00
  • Snapshot 6 = 4.00
  • Snapshot 7 = 5.00
  • Snapshot 8 = 6.00

This just worked perfectly when I tried it... snapshots change as planned on playback. 

(As complicated as that may look at a glance... once you know the procedure it takes seconds to program)

[rd2rk]

YAY! Someone who actually uses S1!

I'd noticed the filters in the MIDI Monitor were all checked, and assumed, since the messages were coming through, that all was good.

I tried un-checking the messages, and the monitor no longer passed the messages, so I'm guessing that you meant UN-checking the boxes.

Also, looking at the screenshot that DD posted, I'm wondering, if the trick is using fractional values, how S1 could record the full values that all controllers (I've ever seen) send?

Does that mean that S1 WON'T record proper messages, making it impossible to record (CC/PC messages for) a performance?

I'm guessing that, since most of the folks on the S1 Forum seem to be synth guys, that S1 handles NOTEs without a problem, but maybe has problems with CC/PC messages?

S1 baffles me! Since I'm totally happy with Reaper, it's just curiosity at this point, but since I had to PAY for it, I want to KNOW!

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

I'd noticed the filters in the MIDI Monitor were all checked, and assumed, since the messages were coming through, that all was good.

I tried un-checking the messages, and the monitor no longer passed the messages, so I'm guessing that you meant UN-checking the boxes.

 

I'm not talking about midi monitor.... 

• When you add a "keyboard device" there are filter boxes... do not check those or it will filter those items, not pass them. If you are looking at if from a different angle... it may be reversed - I don't know. 
• Today when I added the Helix... I needed to add it as an "instrument" (not a keyboard) so those filters did not apply.  (I've never added the Helix before... I've never had a need to)

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

Also, looking at the screenshot that DD posted, I'm wondering, if the trick is using fractional values, how S1 could record the full values that all controllers (I've ever seen) send?

 

That weird anomaly is because Studio One reserves CC69 for ""hold 2 on/off"....  while the Helix uses it for Snapshots. How S1 deals with that parameter is by snapping to odd fractional numbers.... so yeah - it does create a weird interaction with the Helix. Normally you would simply enter 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 as values... but S1 is moving those to "it's closest fraction" that it has reserved. 

 

I've posted much easier numbers to remember above than the odd fractions that guy gave in the video. S1 will load those "fractions" on it's own as long as you are in the ballpark :) 

 

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

that S1 handles NOTEs without a problem, but maybe has problems with CC/PC messages?

 

CC and PC messages are managed through automation channels.... not an everyday midi track. When you record into S1 it will track ALL on one track... it will just create the Automation lanes for each and every CC, PC,  Mod Wheel, etc... etc.... for that track. When you just need to SEND to a device... it's much easier to just create the automation track on it's own. 

 

That all sounds way harder than it actually is :) 

 

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

S1 baffles me! Since I'm totally happy with Reaper, it's just curiosity at this point, but since I had to PAY for it, I want to KNOW!

 

I'm the opposite. I found S1 to be so intuitive I rarely need to look anything up. I came from Cakewalk/Sonar prior and yes it was different... but I though it made way more sense. Obviously... what makes sense is not the same for everyone :) 

 

 

[FAchterberg]

Somehow it is not working for me. Also not in Ableton Live aswell based on this youtube video "How to Automate a Line 6 Helix with Ableton Live". For Studio One I used this one "Automating Your Helix to Change Patches through Midi with Studio One".

 

 

My Helix MIDI settings are:

Base Channel = 2 (also setup this channel in Studio One and Ableton)
MIDI Thru = OFF
Receive MIDI Clock = AUTO
Send MIDI Clock = MIDI+USD
Tempo Select = per snapshot
Global BPM = 120
MIDI over USB = ON
MIDI PC receive = OFF
MIDI PC send = OFF
Duplicate PC send = ON

Thanks.

[rd2rk]

@FAchterberg - Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread. Hope you're getting something out of it. If not, tell me to butt out and I'll start another thread.

 

@codamedia - I guess I'm just not getting the "Automation" lane thing. I recorded on an audio track, but all it recorded was the audio. I created an Instrument track and it recorded the PC/CC messages, sort of. It doesn't display them in the track, so I'm not sure what it actually recorded, but it seems to play them back randomly. I'm sure it must just be me - you're right, what's obvious to one person is not necessarily obvious to another.

 

The reason I want to do this at all is so that I can record the MIDI changes during a performance, then when I repeat the performance I don't need to worry about pressing buttons on Helix, the recorded MIDI track does that for me and all I have to do is play. All of this happens easily and seamlessly in Reaper and Cakewalk, but for the life of me I can't get the logic/routing that S1 uses.

 

If you have time at some point, try what I'm trying to do. If you get it to work, maybe send a screenshot or two of your configuration. I'd appreciate it, as this is making me crazy!

[codamedia]

37 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

I created an Instrument track and it recorded the PC/CC messages, sort of. It doesn't display them in the track, so I'm not sure what it actually recorded, but it seems to play them back randomly. 

 

Exactly... although it's all on one instrument (ie: midi) track, it's broken into lanes. It can be seen separately as tabs in the Piano Roll view so they can be edited separately. 

 

41 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

The reason I want to do this at all is so that I can record the MIDI changes during a performance, then when I repeat the performance I don't need to worry about pressing buttons on Helix, the recorded MIDI track does that for me and all I have to do is play. All of this happens easily and seamlessly in Reaper and Cakewalk, but for the life of me I can't get the logic/routing that S1 uses.

 

If you have time at some point, try what I'm trying to do. If you get it to work, maybe send a screenshot or two of your configuration. I'd appreciate it, as this is making me crazy!

 

Program changes are fine, and snapshots are a little wonky. The values sent to S1 are 0,1,2,3,4 etc.... but the values in S1 are being "snapped" to the odd fractions we talked about earlier. This is offsetting snapshot 3 and higher. (ie: the wrong snapshots are loading on playback... one higher than they should be)

 

I think the trick will be to find out why Studio 1 is reserving CC69 like it is.... and whether or not that can be released for normal usage. I'll dig around al little and see if I can find a solution for this. 

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, FAchterberg said:

Somehow it is not working for me. Also not in Ableton Live

 

Try a new USB cable? If it's not working in Ableton Live either... then it's not Studio One - and probably not Ableton either. 

Your settings look OK... so that shouldn't be a problem. 

 

I just started a new S1 song then followed the steps I provided above (one of my first posts).... it worked 100% for me. 

 

[codamedia]

@rd2rk.... 

 

Well, no luck. It seems that Line 6 used a CC# (69) that is normally reserved for "Hold 2 ON/OFF".... 

Studio One treats ON/OFF CC reservations differently than other CC#'s.... and has no way (at this time) to work around it. 

 

So it seems to be a combination of Studio One being overly strict in their implementation, and Line 6 being a little careless in there implementation. The end results makes it "fairly" incompatible for you... in regards to what you are trying to do. There are work arounds (the values I provide above) but that doesn't help with how you want to track it directly from the Helix. 

 

None of this will have any effect on me... but I can see why it would be frustrating for you. 

 

As for the OP @FAchterberg.... the step by step I provide "should work" for you. As I say, I've tested it several times and it does work on my machine from Studio One. 

 

 

[rd2rk]

I used the numbers you provided with mixed (random) results.

I couldn't figure out how to get LIVE to send Program Changes.

Neither S1 nor LIVE have a logical Event Editor.

I HIGHLY recommend that, unless OP has a MAJOR investment of time in to S1, he should try Reaper, which has no such problems like the others can't handle, has a logically configurable Events List/Editor, and can easily both record and manually configure projects for use with Helix.

[FAchterberg]

Found it. The Helix provides itself as Helix and Helix (emulation). In both DAW the emulation was selected as default which did not the trick. I have reset both DAW's and now it is working in both.

Thank you all for your input.

@rd2k In Studio One you can use normal MIDI value figures 0-127. In Edit mode you can click the right-mouse and choose between percent or MIDI.