Will the Catalyst Models be in Helix 3.2?

[JimGordon]

Over at the Gearpage forums, there was a back and forth at one point where someone implied that Line 6 might not include the new Catalyst models (Carillon, Clarity, etc) in the 3.2 Helix firmware update because it would "cannibalize" sales of the Catalyst.  Phil_m responded that there wasn't a fear of that, but didn't indicate whether those models would indeed be included.  Given that the models have already been put out in the public domain, could someone in "the know" confirm that they will be coming to Helix?  I know there's NDAs, etc, but we already know that HX modeling tech was used to create these, and frankly, the cat's already out of the bag as to what these models are all about.  I'd love to have at least some scrap of info about a little of what we are going to be getting in the next update.......

[BAmartin]

I have no inside knowledge whatsoever on which amps are coming in the next 3.2 firmware, but I do hope those models stay in the Catalyst.

First reason: We want the Catalyst to sell a lot of units and including those amps in the Helix would definitely translate into less sales. The more units sold, the more money Line6 make, the more they can invest in R&D and staff. That would give them the chance to still add free updates to the Helix like they did from the beginning (excellent).

Second reason: Those amps aren´t anything that can´t be achieved within the vast array of amps that are already present. I seriously don´t understand how many sparkling clean, edge-of-breaking-up, chimy fanfares or "some word that sounds cool but really says nothing" amps Helix users need.

Third reason: There are still a couple amps, classic stompboxes and modern effects that haven´t been included. (EVH 5150 III, Hx Dimension D, Feedbacker, Boss Ph 1-R, Small Clone, JMP-1, Boss BF-2, Eden Traveler, DOD Envelope Filter FX-25)

In sum, let the Catalyst models remain in the Catalyst. And if you like it so much, sell your own amp and buy one. That´s the answer all the metalheads get when we compare the Helix to Fractal or Kemper as far as amp availability and profiling.

Greetings people.

 

  

[silverhead]

3 hours ago, JimGordon said:

…. I know there's NDAs, etc, but......

Sorry… there’s no ‘but’ about it. Having said that, I don’t personally have any information about it. Having said that, that’s exactly what I’d be required to say even if I did. So you’re not going to get a definitive answer. And any answer you do get is pure speculation (as BAmartin acknowledged) unless you hear it from a Line 6 employee who is either authorized to say it or is about to lose their job.

[HonestOpinion]

6 hours ago, BAmartin said:

I have no inside knowledge whatsoever on which amps are coming in the next 3.2 firmware, but I do hope those models stay in the Catalyst.

First reason: We want the Catalyst to sell a lot of units and including those amps in the Helix would definitely translate into less sales. The more units sold, the more money Line6 make, the more they can invest in R&D and staff. That would give them the chance to still add free updates to the Helix like they did from the beginning (excellent).

...

 

While I agree with the rest of your post as well as the bit in your "First Reason" regarding investing in R&D and staff, it is hard for me to see how not keeping these models only in the Catalyst will cause significantly reduced sales. The Catalyst is different enough from the Helix that it will hopefully hold appeal in other ways. One of the biggest pluses, often lauded, about the current crop of HX devices is the "ecosystem", its inter-connectivity, and the ease of transferable knowledge and even presets between devices and also, Native. IMHO the sharing of code, models, features, etc., across devices is to be encouraged. It helps to keep them all current, encourages updates which can be leveraged throughout the entire lineup, and I believe ultimately increases sales for all of the devices. If you like a model or feature enough to purchase a Catalyst to get it, maybe you will purchase additional HX devices that possess that model/feature in other form factors as well for greater flexibility. 

[soundog]

There are talented folks selling/giving away presets that are very good at re-creating tones and making IRs for Helix. I think any of them could come close to duplicating the tones from a Catalyst.

 

From my perspective, the Catalyst is a completely separate product from Helix. Its kinda like a slimmed down Helix modeler with built-in amp and cab. If I didn't already own a Stomp and a StageSource 2LT, I'd probably grab one for a good time.

[BAmartin]

Thanks for your HonestOpinion on the Catalyst. I tend to think about the Catalyst as being the new Spider Valve Mk II. Same approach, same features. I´m pretty sure that the Catalyst will be updated through firmware and get many HX effects already present in the HX devices. However, I think that Line6 is targeting other customers when they decided to release a product like this. Having already a Helix... I wouldn´t buy a Catalyst. I´d go for a 4 x 12 cab and a tube poweramp. I wanted Line6 to make a huge bet and release something like the Vetta II with tubes, HX amps and effects modeling. That would be a lot more interesting for those who work with Helix Native or those who could sell their HX devices in order to do the big jump. Unfortunately, they think that´s not a smart move. I´m not a clean/boutique amp player, I find everything with less gain than a JCM 800 to be quite boring. But that´s just me. I understand that other customers play music genres for which the Carillion and the Kinetic and so forth would sound awesome. Once I watched the Catalyst demo, I felt pretty underwhelmed. And reading the specs just deepened the feeling.

Anyways, the staff know what they´re doing a lot more than I do. I just hope they keep upgrading the Helix listening to their customers on Ideascale while following closely their competitors. I´m keeping the Helix until it doesn´t turn on. That´s pretty clear to me.  

 

[rd2rk]

7 hours ago, JimGordon said:

Over at the Gearpage forums, there was a back and forth at one point where someone implied that Line 6 might not include the new Catalyst models (Carillon, Clarity, etc) in the 3.2 Helix firmware update because it would "cannibalize" sales of the Catalyst.  Phil_m responded that there wasn't a fear of that, but didn't indicate whether those models would indeed be included.  Given that the models have already been put out in the public domain, could someone in "the know" confirm that they will be coming to Helix?  I know there's NDAs, etc, but we already know that HX modeling tech was used to create these, and frankly, the cat's already out of the bag as to what these models are all about.  I'd love to have at least some scrap of info about a little of what we are going to be getting in the next update.......

 

If you want to know, go back to TGP. NOBODY from Line6 hangs out on this forum.

Sad, but true.

 

4 hours ago, BAmartin said:

First reason: We want the Catalyst to sell a lot of units and including those amps in the Helix would definitely translate into less sales.

 

Nonsense.

If you want a Helix, you might ALSO want a Catalyst (I do), but a Catalyst is NOT a substitute for a full-fat Helix, or even an HXStomp.

 

 

 

 

 

[JimGordon]

While I agree there are a number of real-life models that the Helix still should get (such as the MRX Distortion +, some kind of Fryette/VHT amp, Laney, etc), this isn't an "either or" choice.  The models have already been created using HX tech, so this wouldn't take away from time spent on any other models, and honestly, the more we have in Helix, the better.  I held off on buying a Helix for 3 years because the list of models at launch was frankly too small.

 

Regarding cannibalizing sales, I don't see that being a factor at all.  As others have said, Line 6 clearly wants to make feature-sharing across products a priority when possible.  The Catalyst is in no way a "substitute" for a Helix or vice-versa; they fulfill different roles.  The Catalyst is very clearly an attempt to use modeling as a superstructure for affordable amps for people who would've otherwise bought a Peavey solid state amp as one of their first amps, or as a decent sounding plug and go amp solution for people who need a backup, or just want something that sounds good enough for a quick gig.  The full-on Helix, on the other hand, is aimed at people who have already been playing for a few years, or who have very specific sounds they want to achieve (and will need a lot of options), and will make the call on what type of output solution they will add.

 

As far as NDAs, I'm aware there's no "but" about it; that said, NDAs are usually there to keep competitors from getting inside info that they could use to copy something and rush to market; the difference here is that the Catalyst models are already out in the wild.